JJ.
I thought I was good here. What did I miss?
JJ.
I thought I was good here. What did I miss?
You had two pair, the winner had a flush!
(shakes head)
Anybody else?
What did you do wrong?
You played pocket jacks? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL89VxJaeTw
why posting this bro, thats just a pre bad beat where you had not a lot of equity actually. you had 43% to loose this
Here’s another one. Did I play this properly, play it okay, or did I royally screw this up?
Felted in the First Orbit yet Again
Just note that it was my intention to jam the river but I fumbled the mouse and accidentally tanked out but the result would have been the same anyways.
players play their suited cards to death. players will chase no matter what you bet/raise. gave him a straight draw on flop. gave him a flush draw on turn, they not folding. river gives them the straight. I would’ve checked all the way to river. then folded when player jammed all in knowing they just got their straight.
I don’t know about royally screwed up, but you should be shoving the turn. You want to maximize winnings when the draws don’t complete, not avoid getting stacked when they do. Everything still calls if you shove the turn, but you usually only get called by better on a lot of rivers. It’s kind of thin though because QT is already possible along with some better 2-pair, so checking turn is an option too. I think mostly you get raised on the flop though from all the better hands though, so I’d be going with shove in this instance (note: I really like your flop sizing for this reason). I still get stacked on this river, but I win the max on a brick.
I wasn’t avoiding stacking. I opened and led all 3-streets (other than the aforementioned mouse bungle on river) confidently out-of-position. I was taking your advice of betting smaller out-of-position (in this case with 2 Villains). Usually it’s 1/4 on flop and 1/3rd turn but I actually sized up to 1/3rd and 1/2. Still got it wrong. The reason that I didn’t think he had the T was because straight draw shouldn’t be calling such large bet sizes, at least not 1/2 pot odds with 4 outs on turn. Just what does bet smaller early mean then? Doesn’t get any earlier than SB 3-handed. If this particular Villain is willing to put half his stack in on the turn with 4 outs (and T-high showdown) do you think his chances of folding to a jam are all that much less? Or are you saying that there was just no way that I was getting this dork off of that terrible draw and I should just make the ‘profitable’ play anyways and take my lumps if/when he hits?
people don’t fold on a fake chip site. you could’ve shoved all in preflop. player was calling because he suited. its what players on here do. call suited cards regardless what those 2 cards are on here
Those are all very good questions. Firstly, betting smaller out of position doesn’t necessarily mean betting small, just that you can, and often should, use smaller sizes than you would in position. A lot of the times that is because small sizes in position aren’t great though, rather than big sizes out of position being bad. (Exploitatively, when people just don’t have bluff raises, you can re-open for small without it hurting, but passive players also tend to overfold to small bets, so you miss out on getting thin value too.)
On most boards, if you bet small on the flop, you want to start polarizing and using big sizes on the turn. This particular board is actually a bit tricky. If you were deeper, I like 1/2 pot or check. 1/2 pot might still get called by Ax, but that should be folding to anything larger without a redraw. At this SPR though, I think any A will find a reason to call an all-in. The SPR makes a huge difference.
Right, except for AT, KT, JT, T9dd and maybe T9cc. Most of those should be played as raises on the flop, but that’s about as likely in practice as anyone folding these on the turn.
just chiming in that sizing from flop to turn can be pretty tricky and I’m definitely still studying it myself. but as general guidance, unless the board is still super disconnected on the turn/you have a big range advantage, if we are betting the turn we want to go significantly bigger (as a % of the pot) than we did on the flop. this puts a lot of the weak hands that continued against our small flop bet in a tough spot. If we go small-small we’re often just giving too good a price to Villain’s whole range. At least, I think that’s the reasoning.
Yeah, basically, although I think it’s often more useful to approach this from the perspective of max value, rather than equity denial.
If you tell a solver to c-bet with a single size on the flop, there’s usually no EV difference between any reasonable size, it just adjusts the range it’s betting to compensate. Essentially you can range bet small or start to polarize with large bets (or anything in between).
If you range bet, then on the turn you’ll typically have a decent amount really strong hands that want to start making up for lost value, plenty of bluffs to balance that out, and a lot of hands in the middle that just want to get to showdown or draw as cheaply as possible. You’re rarely worried about nut changing turn cards, because you range bet and it’s rare for the turn to bring in a draw that only your opponent can have. That means there’s usually little incentive to bet small again on the turn. You still might need to size down when the flush comes in, the board pairs, or there turn brings 4 to a straight, but you still usually get to use larger percentages of the pot than you would if you’d bet large on the flop. There are also exceptions where your opponent really can’t have much and it makes sense to bet small with value, and therefore some bluffs as well.
I realized later that he actually had 13 outs (12 because I had Kcl). So not quite so dorky as I thought but still pretty darn loose.
terrible, 0/10
Think of this as if you’re Villain. Would you fold this turn for that size? If so, why are you even playing the hand in the first place? Of course Villain continued on that turn against 1/2 pot. You were willing to stack off on the rivered 4-liner, so they do in fact have the necessary implied odds.
You should’ve jammed turn. Not because it would’ve changed the outcome here (they were probably never folding after seeing that turn), but because that way you get all their chips when they miss the river. As played, you still pay when they hit, but when they miss they’ll never give you a single additional chip.
I don’t think you did anything wrong, but you should re-read @wildpokerdude 's two replies because he’s not wrong in these situations. In the first example note why the others called except for Klotz. (S)he always thinks Ace is King even with a bad kicker.
I’ve been on this site long enough. I know what players do. they call any 2 cards that are suited. players will chase their straights and flushes regardless of bet and raise size. they just won’t. same with any Ax hand. from A,K all the way to A,2. they will just call. more times than not, these players just hit their straights and flushes. more times than not a Ace hits as well.
just laugh at you all over analyzing hands/strategy for MTT, sit N go, ring games. it may work in real poker, but on a play money site, just throw everything out the window.
I’ve also notice a lot of patterns with the RNG. I use this to my advantage. I can make folds that others just can’t because I recognize what’s going on based on past experience when I see these things. I still get caught up in spots that I should know better, but it happens. or, I think I know what’s going on and fold and then see that it wasn’t happening.
only thing I haven’t figured out is to play junk cards. I don’t know how many times I fold like 4,7 and flop is 447 or 774. it drives me nuts. course all the other players are splashing the pot. I’m like ughhhhhhhhhhhh
@wildpokerdude isn’t wrong about people not folding flush draws, but they are drawing incorrect conclusions.
Firstly, people usually aren’t supposed to be folding flush draws. The solver never folds the flop and only folds the worst 10% of its draws on the turn. If you were deeper, it wouldn’t be folding any flush draws at all.
As the SB, it’s still pure betting all 2-pair on the flop, and barreling 80% of the time on the turn. The only combos that check sometimes are the ones that block the flush draws, because that’s exactly what you want your opponent to have. (KcJx still mostly bets, but there’s no EV difference between All-in, 50% pot or check. In practice, I still think jam is better, and the non-club combos pure jam)
The moral of the story is, you will lose to flushes and straights sometimes, but you lose far more by not getting all the money in when you have such a strong hand on a board like this where there are so many draws that will call.
@napkin_holder For the record, KcJh is a pure check on the river if you bet half pot on the turn, and it’s an indifferent call to the all-in. You actually picked the line the solver takes the most often on each street, so in no way can it be said that you screwed it up.
I guess you’re missing my point when I’m agreeing with @wildpokerdude 's assessment that on a Free poker site few players will fold when pushed as in the two examples.
Does your Solver take this into account?