Here’s the story. If you’re not familiar with this tournament, it’s a freeroll (buy-in is 1 chip) and the first 15 mins is unlimited free reloads (for stacks under 15k). Then there is a break where everyone adds on 10k. So everyone goes crazy trying to double and triple up super wide for 15 mins trying to get stack position for the real deal after the break. Then we settle down and play serious deep stack after that.
At the first table, Villain on my left was hitting everything. He was playing garbage (as all of us were) but he was hitting it all. Now the thing is that once you’re over 1.5k you can’t reload, so anyone with 5k is playing tight. He’s still flinging garbage and is up to 19k and laughing at everyone. Now, he’s only borderline rude, not too bad. His bankroll is peanuts. I fold a hand and he lols me. I say something like “Nothing I can do if the luckiest player in replay is on my left.” He lols again and I think to myself how much I’d love to see this guy at the final table.
So we make the break and I’m 12th(ish) out of 50(something). A few hands after the add-ons, the table breaks and he’s gone. A half-hour later I check the stat info and he is tournament leader with some ridickaliss stack, like 200k.
Now the purse is not very big and the payouts start at 40th, so I don’t care about the chips. I’m here to win so I can say I did it. I’m doing pretty well and I’m 5th(ish) out of like 18.
Plonk! Guess who pops in TO MY LEFT (again) … the luckiest guy in replay. He’s short-stacked now, like under 20k. He’s lost his huge lead. Now he’s whining that he hasn’t had any cards. He remembers me from the first table and he’s yappy-yappy-yappy. Nothing rude, just full of bs. I say “baloney - you were chip leader 20 mins ago.” Now when it folds to me on SB and I fold, he thanks me for the chips because he had crap. Then he jams and cries to the table that he’s weak (lying), gets called and doubles up. Luckiest guy in replay.
We whittle down to 9 and it’s final table and he’s still on my left. And he’s still buttlucky as hell and when we get down to final 5 myself and another Villain trade chip lead with the behemoth stacks but LGiR now has very playable stack ahead of one or two others. He’s still yapping and full of bs. I can’t wait to take him down. He takes out the third place guy and we’re heads-up. We’re both folding card dead for a few hands. He starts laughing again because I’m passive with big stack. He taunts me to bully him. Then he jams into my A5s and you see the link above. BOOM! Big mouth eats felt. (fist pump)
He did gg me. Hardly the worst Villain I ever faced but borderline rude all the way. I wanted to see him at the final table and did I ever! : D
How is that a terrible call? They actually have more equity than you do. You should both be happy to get all the chips in on this flop.
You could certainly use that descriptor at multiple points in the second hand though.
Of course he has more equity. Equity is all that he has. I have a MADE STRAIGHT! He doesn’t know that. All that he knows is that he is calling a massive bet (like half his stack) with 12 outs. 12 outs might be nice but the odds are NOT in his favor. AT ALL! And it’s a shove too so he HAS to showdown. He can’t bluff me off a later street. It’s NOT a good call.
@napkin_holder there’s no way Villain can fold in Hand 1. Look at the stack sizes… you started the hand with 6bb. Any flush draw should call the flop even if you open shove.
As played, by the final decision V is getting like 2 million to 1 pot odds. Of course he didn’t fold.
In the second hand, your 3-bet preflop is way too small. You’ll be out of position for the rest of the hand. Should have gone to about 1000, or 4x the open.
I disagree. His stack odds to mine are less than 2 to 1. His odds to hit are maybe 50/50 at best (because 2 streets)? He also does not have iso. There’s a bigger stack behind yet he flats it - TWICE! I don’t think he thought this through at all. Bad decision.
They have 14 outs, and would have basically at least that many against any possible made hand you can have. That makes them essentially a favorite no matter what, not 50/50 at best. There may be spots where you could justify folding, but there’s no situation where this can be described as a bad call.
I disagree there too. At 10x I’m only getting called by A-bdwy, K-bdwy. I WANT 96 to call and he did (very badly). A6s and K6s should not be there (or any 6x at all other than maybe 66) at 5.5x. So I was shocked to see 96 call - because it’s stupid. He just reached deep into the buttluck sack. If that’s the way that he’s playing, he’s calling 10x or 100x jam anyways.
And for the record, according @lihiue, a hand that I posted back in November from a freeroll when I 3-bet a 2x open up to 5, my sizing was outrageous and only inflated the pot. Then another hand last month he said that my 3x over was too small (although it wasn’t pre). So 5x over is pretty huge.
If it’s more than 50/50 it’s not much more than 50/50, and you would risk over half your stack (to me) on that and ALL of it (to the other Villain who has double your stack in 3-way)?
100%, because the potential reward is so high. If you think this is a bad call, then what exactly were you expecting to get called by?
Wires got crossed here somewhere or I was drunk when I posted that, because raising to 5bb over a min open is likely way to small in just about every situation. This might be one spot where the tiny raise is actually fine though.
No, because that chances that he actually has that is like 1 or 2%. I’m short-stacked. I close the bb pre because I had junk, then miraculously flopped a straight. I can steal now and if somehow someone makes a dumb call or thinks that their 2-pair or set is good here I double up. Remember, I min bet and THEN jammed the min raise. They can call min bet much wider but not jam.
If I have 2-pair here I’m folding but not everyone does. There are 2 Villains here. I don’t care if they fold, I steal and live, and if they call, their chances of beating me are almost zero. You really think that’s terrible? I know that you’re smarter than that.
On top of that, I min bet, V1 called, V2 raised, and V1 was STILL not afraid to flat - FLAT (!!) me the 2nd time on my shove. He had no regard whatsoever for who was on his left!! He’s a fish who pulled a turn card out of his butt.
It doesn’t matter how often they can have a hand that beats you, if those are the only hands that you think should be calling, your jam is terrible. I can’t find of a more fitting description for potentially getting folds from players that have shown they’re willing to put money in for you, and that you think have almost zero chance of beating you.
(I don’t think any of your assumptions are actually true though - jam was good here - it’s just that so was the opponents call)
There are two ways to interpret your initial question. Forgive me if I misinterpreted. I took your question to mean:
What would I call with in this spot - if I were Villain. Hence the answer T9 or 95.
I see now that you meant:
What did I have (this particular) Villain on here. To which the answer is a ton of 2-pair or set, and knowing how fishy he is probably even something as weak as A8.
Personally, I am not putting half my stack up for adoption with 2-pair or a set on a straight line board. “Flopped a set, sweet! I can’t lose!” is something that many many players think, and something that I would have thought myself 6 months ago. 50k hands later I know better now. Not only did Villain put up half his stack here, he did it with A DRAW!
And Villain’s complete disregard for Villain 2’s raise on his left proves that he’s just looking at his cards and thinking “Sweet, I’m good, nothing else could possibly matter.” I was expecting a fold from V1 and maybe a call from V2. I was surprised when it was the other way around. What would V1 have done if V2 had come overtop again?
Either he was thinking “my draw (DRAW!) is good here,” or “my flight leaves in an hour.”
If his call actually was a good one he had no clue.
I’m baffled by your confusion about this spot! It is a tournament. Calling off half your stack with 14 live outs is super super duper standard. Heck, calling off your whole stack with that many outs is standard in most configurations.