The Cold, Hard Truth About Randomness, Variance, & Online Poker Dealing

Replay Poker Poker Discussion
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Well, the cold hard truth for Daniel Negreanu and Antonio Esfandiari is winning the WSOP

Main Event is still on their bucket lists.

Jamie Gold, Phil Hellmuth, Doyle Brunson and Stu Unger, for example,

all had an ability to win it all and reach the very top of the poker world.

Negreanu and Esfandiari went the $1,000,000 buy-in route to win millions.

Esfandiari entered the “Big One for One Drop” in 2012, a $1,000,000 buy-in tournament benefiting the One Drop Foundation. By winning the event, Esfandiari won the second largest single payout in tournament poker history at $18,346,673. Esfandiari was ranked number one for all-time tournament poker winnings, until Daniel Negreanu took this title by finishing 2nd in the “Big One For One Drop 2014”.

One can say, even though they were $1,000,000 buy-in tournaments, they were cheap wins with

a much smaller field.

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Jamie Gold BUTLUCKED LUCKBOXED the main event. He was constantly making questionable, debateable, borderline, semi bad plays in borderline semi bad spots. And he was constantly making extremely high variance plays in a EXTREMELY DEEP STACKED event. And He BAD BEATED, SUCKED OUT A LOT. Now almost all main event winners occasionally bad beat, suck out, etc. But Jamie Gold bad beat, sucked out more then that. And he was taunting, talking SH!T, had, has no class. And he was showing 1 of his cards a lot in a lot of hands. AND HE GOT WARNED BY WSOP DEALERS, STAFF, MORE THEM ONCE. And Jamie Gold made the Main Event into a Joke that year. And Jamie Gold butlucking the main event led to the saying that practically anybody could win the main event, as not only Jamie Gold did it, but a lot of amateurs have either won the main event or come close. As Moneymaker, Raymer, others started out as amateurs, before they went pro. And after Jamie’s BUTLUCKY MIRACULOUS CLASSLESS MAIN EVENT, he then proceeded to lose it all. He does not have good skill, and is just LUCKY. And is the epitome of the saying Better to be lucky then good.

And lots of pro players are better then Jamie Gold, including Negreanu. And the only reason Negreanu does not have a main event win, is because he was UNLUCKY, not because of lack of skill, and not because he is not as good as Jamie Gold, as he is better then Jamie Gold. Negreanu was at a Main Event Final table, where he got BAD BEAT, where the other hand SUCKED OUT to knock Negreanu out, where if Negreanu’s hand had held up, he would have been 1 of the chip leaders, if not the chip leader, and likely would have gone on to win. Negreanu has been extremely unlucky in the main event, etc, at times. Jamie Gold is not worthy to hold Negreanu’s Jockstrap, if poker players had Jockstraps.

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Least skilled Main Event winners, since 2000, IMO:

-Jerry Yang (BY FAR, he was truly terrible)
-Jamie Gold (basically just used the same speech-play move over and over and is a great salesman so it worked)
-Chris Moneymaker (we all know the deal here lol)
-Joe Hachem (but he seems a nice chap)

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Yang started the final table with the fewest chips among the nine players, but he managed

to outlast his more experienced opponents.

The final table included some well-known names like Hevad “Rain” Khan, Lee Childs, Lee Watkinson, Alex Kravchenko, Raymond Rahme, and Tuan Lam.

Yang played an incredible game, winning 30 of the first 80 hands and building a significant chip lead.

Despite some setbacks, he managed to maintain his chip advantage and eventually faced Tuan Lam heads-up

In the heads-up battle, Yang held 8♠ 8♣ and Lam had A♦ Q♦. Yang raised to $2.3 million, and Lam moved all-in. Yang quickly called, Yang had a set of eights and the win.

He was crowned the WSOP Main Event champion, winning $8.25 million

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Let’s take a look!

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Yeah Yang was terrible, he just ran like God

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Excaliburns, most to almost all the poker community, poker pros, etc, including Guru, acknowledge what a joke of a player Jamie Gold is. And that’s just his play. People think Helmuth, Mike Matasow are classless, bad, etc. But Jamie Gold is far worse then Helmuth, Mike Matasow. You give credit to anyone, everyone who wins, even if they butluck, luckbox, or have no class or get warn by staff, even if they bad, etc. Just because a bad player luckboxes a win, does not mean they are a good player, or deserve recognition, credit. Your being results oriented, instead of being good poker play, decisions oriented.

Good poker play is good, and bad poker play is bad, regardless of what happens, results, win or lose, etc. The inherent, intrinsic value of a poker play, does not change based on results, etc.

There are winners like Eric Seidel(Main Event Winner)(long term winning pro), Ivey, Chris Ferguson, Negreanu, etc, that are good players, skilled, deserve credit, recognition, etc. Those players should be focused on, not the Nik Airball’s, Jamie Gold’s, bad players that have luckboxed, etc.

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Yup @Asuronetorius

For the most part the best poker players in the world are STILL widely underappreciated/unrecognized. Most of the celebrity poker players that have become household names are just OK to very good.

For example, Daniel Negreanu should be applauded for his impact on the game, to be sure. He’s a first-ballot Hall of Famer. But he’s not even in the top 50 in the world at this point, skill wise, for either cash game or tournament hold 'em. And most of the guys who are, most of us don’t even know their names (I sure don’t).

Yet overwhelmingly you will hear DNegs mentioned as one of the most popular picks for “best poker player in the world.”

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I believe we can learn from everyone’s experiences.

If we only focused on the better half, it would be a mistake.

Never been a fan of cancel culture.

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Here are some names to check out, for those who may not be familiar:
-Stevan Burakov aka “Stefan11222”
-DavyJones92
-BerriSweet
-Linus Loeliger aka “LlinusLlove”
-Timofey Kuznetsov aka “Trueteller”

That’s just a few of the current best off the top of my head, there are several glaring omissions to be sure. Any of these guys would unequivocally eat Daniel Negreanu for breakfast.

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@Excaliburns I agree we can learn from everyone. Doubt any of this has anything to do with “cancel culture” tho :wink:

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Stu Ungar in my book was the best ever-even stoned he would drop Jamie Gold 7 days a week n twice on Sundays:).

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Agree on your list:)

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I think they MUCH rather have the millions they made playing poker and from endorsements then be like Jamie Gold…Winning the WSOP now is a lot of good luck as u see in the last 20 years no REAL big names winning it as a VERY big field…They are WAY better at poker then Jamie could dream of being…–period:)

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In heads up or in cash games, or extremely small field sit n go’s, absolutely your right. Negreanu is a good, great player, especially in tournament play, like Helmuth, but in a different small ball, semi loose semi aggressive style, that unlike Helmuth. Also altho Negreanu is a semi expert, great player, that knows a extreme lot, that’s a awesome coach, he doesn’t execute as well, makes more bad calls, bad folds then other top pros, and is not a top 15 to 25 to 35 player in world, and is questionable on hall of fame status, is borderline HOF, because he doesn’t have 10 to 15 to 20 WSOP Bracelet’s, rings, and 0 main event wins, etc. Despite that he does deserve recognition as a great player, awesome coach, just not as a top, best in world player. Ivey, Eric Seidel, Allen Cunningham, Chris Fergusson, have won the main event, have won a lot of tournaments, are long term profitable, top, pros, coaches, that know a lot, consistently execute well, that do have 10 to 15 to 20 bracelets, rings, WSOP wins, WPT wins, titles, championships, etc, and that’s why they are well known, either hall of famers, or future hall of famers, etc.

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Cmon man Negreanu is an absolutely LOCK for the Hall of Fame! He’s one of the most well-known poker players in the world, and he’s played with the best of the best for decades. Tons of legends never win a Main Event, and DNegs has almost all the other hardware you could want. He’s been super influential as well.

Just because I don’t think he’s one of the very very best active players anymore doesn’t mean I’m not gonna pay the man his due respect :slight_smile:

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Yeah I know Joe, thanks. What I meant is you’d be crazy not to think he belongs there.

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I’m not disrespecting Negreanu. He is one of the top 50 to 75 to 100 players in the world. And he will be in the Hall of Fame because of his popularity, and because he is a poker ambassador, and because he got poker to be popular, and because back when he first started playing, comparatively he was a top 3 to 5 to 7 to 10 player, back when the fields, players were softer.

That said, now Negreanu SKILL wise is in top 50 to top 75 to top 100, and Borderline HOF SKILL, but he is not the top best player, and not 1 of the best, top players in the world, as there are about 13 to 17 to 23 to 27 to 33 players in the world that are better then Negreanu. That’s not disrespecting him. That’s just stating the facts, truth, opinion, etc, while still acknowledging that Negreanu is still a great player, coach, etc.

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LMAO-he is a first ballot HOF–and ambassador for poker----Not only a great player but great sportsmanship and not a crybaby like a few we know ( Phil )…