The Cold, Hard Truth About Randomness, Variance, & Online Poker Dealing

I left Replay a review on TrustPilot today based on @flashlight’s very good suggestion.

It was disheartening to see so many 1-star and 2-star reviews based solely on the claim that “the deals are rigged.” I’ve addressed this many times elsewhere, but here I would like to take a different approach. Hopefully this post will be of use to someone, if only to reinforce that they shouldn’t listen to those comments.

The #1 reason players lose chips on Replay is not being good enough at poker.

That’s it! That’s all! “Good enough” includes bankroll management, something many players ignore as it is “just play chips.” That is a fair perspective, but recognize that if you are regularly putting 10% of your bankroll on the table, there is a frustratingly high chance that you will GO BROKE.

People don’t realize how much they are playing with fire. Then it happens—they get burned a few times in a row, leaving them holding ashes—and they blame the dealer.

Ask any player with over 100M chips and they will tell you about some of the most ridiculous stretches of bad luck you’ve ever heard of. This isn’t unique to Replay; this is what playing lots of poker looks like.

A common misconception is that poker is a game where if you make the right decisions, you get to win. More accurate: poker is a game where if you consistently make the right decisions over hundreds of thousands of hands, it’s likely you will win. You could play absolutely perfectly—a standard none of us even comes close to, by the way—and still lose over a 10k hand sample. You could, in fact, still lose significantly! Now imagine you’re not playing perfectly (read: every single one of us). The odds are much less in your favor.

Many players have some success, then go on a terrible downswing and conclude that something is “rigged against them.”

It’s much more likely that instead, you were merely playing breakeven or slightly losing poker, and enjoyed some good luck initially. Now you are losing, perhaps compounded by unusually bad luck—but you were probably never playing as well as you thought you were.

Poker is very, very hard. Even the pros you watch on TV or live stream, many of them are losing players or barely winning. For tournament players, it’s pretty common to be profitable or not, over the course of an entire year, solely on the basis of 1 big event that either went your way or didn’t. For ring/cash game players, your whole week can swing on 1 single hand.

Most players don’t realize this is the norm. Most players haven’t properly internalized the level of variance they are signing up for every time they sit down at a no-limit table. This leads to all kinds of cognitive dissonance, aka “you lost, and you expected to win, so now you’re calling FOUL”

I was lucky to come up with some really talented poker players who have won lots of money playing this game. They are mostly better than me. Some of them are much better than me. Meanwhile, I’m not saying I’m anywhere near the best player on Replay, but I’m fairly confident that I’m somewhere in the top 500. Do you see what I’m getting at?

The “average” Replay skill level is LOSING. This is not a knock on anyone’s personal character; it is just a fact. At least 70% of players on the site are basically playing a strategy that should not win in the long run. Some proportion of those players DO win in the short run, become convinced they are playing well, and then freak out when they regress to the mean.

If you are of those who proudly say you “never bluff,” congrats, you are a losing player. Stop whining.

If you rarely 3bet preflop, and limp a lot of hands, congrats, you are a losing player. Stop whining.

If you mostly fold holding Ad3d on 2s 4s Kd because someone else bet 1/2 pot, and never even consider raising as a semi-bluff, congrats, you are a losing player. Stop whining.

I could go on but you get the idea. We could talk about large numbers and nitpick the specs of the RNG, but that really misses the point: poker is hard, winning long term is hard, and most players simply underestimate what “hard” looks like in practice. I’ve seen multiple players shoot up to a higher bankroll than I have, despite the fact that I play more hours on Replay than probably anyone on the site and use a somewhat sound strategy. Most of those players have also plummeted back down at some point, losing 2/3 of their bankroll or more. They weren’t actually playing better than me; they were playing a higher variance style and enjoying a run above expectation. I say this to emphasize how difficult it is to consistently win at no-limit games.

Among the most common complaints in the “it’s rigged” vein is the claim that “the same players win all the time.”

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS, MY FRIEND?

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This is what those of the younger generation call “skill issue”
My habits are pretty bad too though.

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Being the best at poker is fleeting.

Even if you’re one of the few that get to the top, you will not be there for long.

There’s is always someone next in line to take over.

The WSOP is a good example of the above statement.

  1. Johnny Moss (1970, 1971, 1974) 22. Thomas “Amarillo Slim” Preston Jr. (1972) 32. Walter “Puggy” Pearson (1973) 42. Johnny Moss (1974) 52. Doyle Brunson (1976, 1977) 62. Bobby Baldwin (1978) 72. Hal Fowler (1979) 82. Stu Ungar (1980, 1981, 1997) 92. Jack Straus (1982) 102. Tom McEvoy (1983) 112. Bill Smith (1984) 122. T. J. Cloutier (1987) 132. Johnny Chan (1987, 1988) 142. Phil Hellmuth (1989) 152. Brad Daugherty (1991) 162. Jim Bechtel (1993) 172. Dan Harrington (1995) 182. Huck Seed (1996) 192. Scotty Nguyen (1998) 202. Chris Ferguson (2000) 212. Carlos Mortensen (2001) 222. Robert Varkonyi (2002) 232. Chris Moneymaker (2003) 242. Greg Raymer (2004) 252. Joe Hachem (2005) 262. Jamie Gold (2006) 272. Jerry Yang (2007) 282. Peter Eastgate (2008) 292. Joe Cada (2009) 302. Jonathan Duhamel (2010) 312. Erik Seidel (2011) 322. Pius Heinz (2012) 332. Ryan Riess (2013) 342. Martin Jacobson (2014) 352. Joe McKeehen (2015) 362. Qui Nguyen (2016) 372. Scott Blumstein (2017) 382. John Cynn (2018) 392. Hossein Ensan (2019) 402. Damian Salas (2020) 412. Caterina Gutierrez (2021) 422. Espen Jorgensen (2022)

The same players don’t really win all the time!

I like that you mentioned success can swing on a single hand for the week.

100% awareness during every hand will improve your chances of success.

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What a great post. Honest - to the point of truth - written in full sentences.

Thank you Younguru. :+1: :+1: :+1:

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Good point Joe. Here are the results from the 2024 WSOP High-Roller $100k buy-in. Notice anyone familiar? :wink:

i dont think u notice that i had 60% preflop once and i didnt win the hand how can it be fair???

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Viktor Blom and Isaac Haxton jump out at first glance to answer your question.

Here are the top 8 finishers of the 2023 WSOP High-Roller $100,000 buy-in event:

  1. Jans Arends (Winner)
  2. Cary Katz
  3. Justin Bonomo
  4. Adrian Mateos
  5. Jeremy Ausmus << Only player to finish in the top 8 again the next year
  6. Kristen Foxen
  7. Punnat Punsri
  8. David Peters
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Looks like a lot of “the same guys” who I’m used to seeing on the leaderboard! Granted the fields in these SHR events are quite small…

It was a good post and I learned quite a bit. However, you have to admit that receiving the same two hold cards, 8-2, four times in a row is statistically impossible. Combined with the exact same flop cards, 3,4,5, twice in a row and again two hands later is also quite remarkable. And, yes, those two things happened to me just a couple of weeks ago.

No, it’s about 1:500,000. So very unlikely yes, but there’s been billions of hole cards dealt on Replay, so it’s very close to certain this has happened many times.

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You flopped open-ended with 8 hi four times in a short span, and you’re complaining??? :wink:

Absolutely correct,

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I must be old, remember watching Jamie Gold win it all (2006 ) and it seems like yesterday–he honestly is a BAD poker player but had a very lucky streak that week----lost most of his winnings at cash games later n in my book is n was a DONK:).

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Well, one can say Jamie Gold’s pre- and post-victory decisions overshadowed his success.

He was certainly talented enough to win the WSOP Main Event.

I suppose one can view him less skilled in the long run.

He brought to the table “psychological tactics” blended into his “table talk” which

contributed to his success.

A lot like daslda and Younguru here on Replay.

Jamie faced several controversies, including a legal dispute with Bruce Crispin Leyser

over a staking agreement.

This lawsuit froze a significant portion of his winnings.

He ended up settling out of court for an undisclosed amount.

I give him credit scraping enough money together to even have a shot.

Millions of other poker players are on the sidelines.

So, he was experiencing the worst of it, during what should have been a positive, life changing

moment!

Every one of us make decisions throughout the day.

We need to be aware of the small details that are not obvious that will direct us in a

direction that is not optimal.

It actually happens to us all and we just don’t notice it.

Sometimes, it’s not even randomness.

It’s designed to direct you in the wrong direction for someone else’s benefit.

A good example is the maze of a casino floor.

Even if your intention is to cashout your voucher using the machine by the exit.

It may not be operating, and you find yourself directed back into the maze to the cashier.

If you are not aware at that exact moment, let’s say bad things will happen.

Say what you want about Jamie Gold.

You could say, “the higher you climb, the harder you fall”

Jamie achieved great success climbing to lofty heights but faced significant setbacks.

It’s a reminder for us all, the risks that come with high achievement or ambition.

He also got in player faces and occasionall taunted, talked sh!t, during the hand to try to push, bully, intimidate players into making the wrong decisions to either call when he had goods, or push back when he had goods, fold to his bluffs, etc. The WSOP dealer, staff even warned him 1 time about that. And Jamie would show 1 card during the hand, which is why the rule about not showing cards during the hand, and he was warned about that. All that and the other stuff you mentioned is why his semi fish play stopped working in future years, as players caught on to what he was doing, and started ignoring his antics, and playing GTO against him, and hand reading him more, etc.

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Look into the eyes of these players during the video.

Also, the camera catches the perspective of the players and all that cash on the table.

This video captures everything about what Jamie Gold was up against.

It was his decisions and his luck that enabled him to walk on that tightrope.

All eyes were intently waiting for that misstep.

The lawsuit was because the guy GAVE Jamie the money to play with an agreement on splitting the winnings. Jamie was a Donk with a VERY lucky run and LOST all his winnings in cash games after that----If he played n talked like that at our old games:) he would not be talking the next time we played:). Jamie was embarrassing to poker-I still play cash online n talk goofy but with friends n awwww fish i LOVE to put on tilt with my goofy talk-but all in fun and NO taunting, after fish lose i say" better luck next time n have a nice day my friend" :slight_smile:

It’s amazing how poker with all its variance/randomness is consistently enjoyable in the long run.

The big winners in poker like a Jamie Gold or Antonio Esfandiari probably aren’t enjoying it

as much when the money slips through their fingers.

I was struck on how Antonio looked here in this video.

Also, it’s interesting how the first hand K rag plays out since Younguru seems to always have

that hand.

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Luke u forgot my name on that list U misspelled my name its not Chris Hunichen its …donkey Busta 444

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Now these 2 guys are REAL poker players n very nice people n polite. MANY years ago, i played with kid poker a couple of times and he was a nice guy then n still is----Jamie Gold should not be mentioned in the same breath as them lol:).