RPP algorithm from someone who knows what he's talking about

I’m fascinated by the statistical and psychological challenge in determining whether free sites are juiced for action and/or dealt out to reward donk/aggressive (sub-optimal) play- ie rigged/non random.

The most interesting example to me is users who have some skill and play surprisingly loose, already accounting for free chips and equally loose opponents.Comparing the action to live games with drunk rich maniacs,the card fall ‘seems’ entirely different free online, which tells me it’s rigged and smart players play accordingly and win. The live outcomes are certainly different- the maniacs get slaughtered as long as stakes stay low enough for table to absorb the variance.

Second example are donks and calling stations, obviously rife on free sites, where run outs are easier to assess statistically. Comparing to low stakes online eg E 0.50/1 on Unibet (no bots or HUD) where play is fairly loose on Saturday evenings. Not as loose as free but plenty loose. Accounting for free users playing any 2,the runner runner all in draws hit only maybe 40-50% of the frequency on Unibet compared to Replay My experience and judgement says Replay (and other free sites) is rigged.

Looking at the ‘Why bother rigging it’ argument, there is EVERY incentive for both free and paid sites to rig
Long as they don’t get caught
Paid sites are well regulated (I’ve dealt with Malta Financial Services Authority and they are on the ball and very strict) and, most importantly, so profitable its probably a bad risk to rig, certainly in last 5 or so years. Someone can analyse a few million hands and if they are credible enough you’re done.(The discredited Bovada study could have had a different outcome)
Free sites that exist just to feed the associated paid site were/are blatantly rigged to encourage fish to deposit. Not played in a few years so may have changed

A new phenomenon is free sites that sell chips. That’s their biz model.
So here we are at Replay. I found Replay via google adwords. Poker is a VERY expensive keyword that tells me Replay make money. Maybe very good money.

POKER IS BORING and needs patience even most regs and grinders cant sustain. I played 5/10 at Borgata last month and it was like a funeral. The regs were playing 1 hand an orbit max and delighted with 3 bigs an hour. Sorry, but the average free chip joe who might throw $5 at Replay poker just can’t enjoy the action.If they loosen up they bust and leave- no $5++ for replay. Unless…it’s rigged

Now i truly love the game, I’ve read all the arguments from experienced players why i’m fooling myself,why my subconscious is making excuses for me etc etc and recognise I COULD BE WRONG!

I don’t wish to slur the owners of Replay, it’s a fun gig. BUT observation 100% confirms logic that Replay should be, and is, rigged. Both juiced for action (big hands for multiple players) and non random run outs rewarding underdog.
Stating it isn’t rigged, certified by whomever, is noble and makes me think twice, even three times, but the action i’ve seen tells me it is. Super happy to be proven wrong

Source of expertise:
I’m an experienced and moderately winning player of 30 years both on and offline, entered math and statistic competitions as a teenager, have read extensively about psychological traits such as cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias,and was a professional trader for 25 years.

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ohhh Goodie … Spivak vs oddsandsods … Ding, Ding

This topic may have been beaten to death already, but I actually find it quite interesting. A little background, I’ve been playing at this site for a few months, so no strong opinions on whether the algorithm is less than true-to-life. I don’t have PhD, but I have taken college-level statistical odds, and I have been a hobbyist computer programmer since the mid 1980’s. I first started programming on an Apple ][, was very disappointed with the RND(1) function so I looked into more complex pseudo-random generators and eventually found a very good machine code sub-routine to use in my programs. I’m not going to get into any of the complex programming and mathematics already discussed, but I do have enough knowledge to wrap my head around it…

So I’ll march straight into stating my stupid opinions! Without being involved in the website programming, I’ll never know if the system is rigged or not. But I do have some thoughts on why people may think so.

For starters, Hold 'em has very different odds from other poker variations. Example, in seven card stud, odds of two pair are 3.25, straight just under 20, flush 20.6, full boat, 38, four of a kind, 594!!! But, since we all play off of the same 5 cards, Hold 'em is a very different game. We respond to betting styles and often never see the final hand that was dealt. Also, the rate of play online changes our attention spans. It was mentioned in this thread that you might see 100 hands in an hour playing online, so 5 straights or flushes in that amount of time is not unusual. Still, we’re likely to remember when we got burned more than when we had da nutz…

I think the biggest spanner in the works is how people bet online as opposed to sitting face-to-face at a table and playing real cash. My little pet peeve is all the loose players who love to go all-in before the flop. I just don’t play that way, in the casino or here. So I ditch a LOT of good hands here just because I don’t like the MONEY odds. (I have also seen a lot of stupid betting at cash tables and tournaments, but it is toned down a bit.) I continue to play my own style. I seldom win BIG, but I consistently come up… And if you don’t like the table, you can always stand up and find another. I play here for fun, but I also learn about my own weaknesses as a Hold 'em player as I go.

One final comment on the statistical odds: don’t forget that RANDOM distribution is NOT equal distribution until the number of samples converges on infinity!!! What you see in local samples of data is never going to paint the big picture.

Have fun, all!!!

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spivak vs oddsandsods not going to be likely of one unless a specific accusation is made. What kind of rigging does RPP have? If an accusation is made, I am willing to look into it. Saying “it is rigged” without any specifics is far too vague for me to dispute.

I do NOT have years and years of experience playing poker. I also have not played poker on any other site. I am not able to verify or dispute any of the claims about what feels off to a player like oddsandsods who does. It may indeed be true that something has been done, but the word “rigged” can mean pretty much anything. If something specific is brought up, then this may change.

Stardate 4311.4, somewhere in the Riggedalot cluster…

Kirk: Spock, this game… is rigged!

Spock: (raises one eyebrow)

Kirk: I’m telling, you… they river the flush… 70% of the time!!

Spock: Fascinating. May I inquire as to your sample size? Can I see your data?

Kirk: I don’t have data… that’s a different series… but my blah blah lost to a yada yada 3 times… in a row!

Spock: That’s well within a standard statistical distribution Captain.

Kirk: It’s rigged, I tell you! Bones… you tell him.

Bones: Damn it Jim, I’m a doctor, not a mathematician.

Kirk: Arm photon torpedoes… this site… must be… destroyed!

Spock: It would be illogical to destroy an entire system without supporting data.

Kirk: Forget data… it’s rigged… I feel it!

Spock: Before you do that Captain, I have one request.

Kirk: What is it Mr. Spock?

Spock: Here, pull my finger.

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roflmao :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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SPG, That is funny. The only thing funnier than that, is how the rigged theorists always seem to be people that lose consistently. Along with the RNG, there are a slew of other variables involved, that no program can predict regularly. Poor play is a variable, as is, lack of patience, personal antagonism, bingo play, pushers, low ballers, slow play, and bluffing, just to name a few. Unless Roswell is hiding a secret program that can accurately predict the thought processes of the thousands of individual players seated at any given time, and then, effectively manipulate them into one single self serving conclusion, I can only surmise that the rigged conspiracy theory, and personal frustration, are one and the same. Forget the RNG for a moment. I submit there is another set of incalculable variables, all wrapped up in a package I refer to as the human persona. If such a psychic program were to exist, simple logic would dictate, it would be better suited for trying to achieve world peace, instead of generating pre-determined results on a free poker site! I don’ believe we have world peace yet, so what does that tell us? Of course, this is just my own personal opinion. Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions. I dare say, those would be unpredictable too!!! Good luck at the tables everyone :wink:

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PIBKAC?

Just in case: PIBKAC means “Problem is between keyboard and chair”.

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[quote=“HornedOwl, post:87, topic:6651”]
I don’ believe we have world peace yet, so what does that tell us?
[/quote]that there’s no damn Profit in world peace …

[quote=“HornedOwl, post:87, topic:6651”]
Unless Roswell is hiding a secret program that can accurately predict the thought processes of the thousands of individual players seated at any given time, and then, effectively manipulate them into one single self serving conclusion
[/quote]1) Watson … 2) The Machine … 3) Samaritan

2 are fictional, 1 is real … unless…:alien::thinking:

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When I was on another site, the talk on the forum was how the RPG was rigged to give the best hand the worse chance of winning. Thought they were crazy until I lost three pocket rocket hands.

I did something different than just complain. I went about to prove it. Funny thing happened on the way to the forum. I proved the opposite. My results over a 100-thousand hand history came within a reasonable range to the actual math.

Examples? My pocket aces won 86% of the time compared to the math of 85%. Any specific pocket pair will occur once every 221 hands. Depending on the pocket pair in groups one and two, I nailed that number within a range of 5 plus or minus for three of the five top hands with one hitting more often and one less often.

Would love to do the same here to validate the RPG for myself but this site lacks the statistical data I need to conduct such a review. Without that information I will always doubt the validity of this site.

You, sir, are my kind of guy :slight_smile: This site indeed does not keep records of all that kind of stuff, which is why for my own testing I just played for a while and kept track of the necessary info myself.

Always remember my esteemed colleague, your a guest in someone else’s house. We all play in the same sandbox under the house rules.

My cat likes to poop in sandboxes.

(Reads SPGs post)
Instantly thinks of the commercial, cat talking about kid outside in sandbox.
You’re drive’n me nuts, poop already !!!

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Greetings My Dear Replay Family,

I’m still trying to understand some of the hysteria about Replay cheating their players. It simply doesn’t add up or make sense. I’ve been here since September of 2016. It didn’t take a lot of poking around to figure out their business model.
I think it may very well be worth Replay’s time and effort to come up with some visual learning aids along with some teaching guidelines of the basic corporate business model for the volunteers to use to help learn how to give educated responses to questions, and maybe a quick reference guide to help with someone who may have the hebejebes :fearful:
It would also help all the Mod’s and Player Reps and other volunteers that work to try and be consistent with their help to new players to have a consistent message.

I’ll be honest with all of you, I was quite astonished when I first started playing here. THERE WERE NO ANNOYING ADS ! ! !
That got my doberman ears up at attention instantly. What’s the catch ? ? ? They are making money somehow.! ! ! When I researched it and did some digging around, I was very surprised and certainly impressed… It turns out to be nothing more than a good old fashioned honest business… With good old fashion business practices … Nothing up their sleeve, No emails flooding your inbox. no secret caches Nothing that any of my friends can find.
So, I’ve really only been here a short time to date compared to a lot of you and I know most of you have no Idea who I am . I’m still compelled to tell you, this site is very much the real deal folks. I don’t believe you’ll find another like it on the web. I can’t so far. Please let me know if you do
When I’m better able, I look forward to supporting Replay by purchasing some chips from time to time… I have the utmost respect for any company that’s willing to fly into the face of most modern conventional fast paced profit driven businesses… I really don’t mean to sound like a commercial or so passionate. It may only mean a little to some, I love to watch companies like this, and the poker is splendid and the company at the tables is second to none. …:sunglasses:

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I am with you totally. This site is the best I have played. I love the competition.

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@Rail-Bird,

I also agree, wow… no adds, no BS… but there is hidden issues. Pretty clean interface, tab dependant… I even buy thier RNG thingy, I just think certain approaches and implementations could be so much better…

If Replay is #1 in thier niche, then whats wrong with expanding thier competetive advantage by staying ahead… My dad always liked text games, and I can see the elegance in simplicity in certain aspects of the site. While you and Seville come @ this from 1 side , I come from another… I do have a understanding of coding, web design, but also game development… I have been a forum admin, and a mod for a couple game sites… I have tried to offer topics to the community here so that the discussion could assist staff and players with basic brainstorming/debate on issues that can only make the site better…

If someone tried to say for example a casino does “xyz” and you knew that was bogus, you’d call them out on that. Sometimes players see things like that, and sometimes think they see things like that ( lol ), but honest discussions in good faith can’t hurt, can they?

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Wow, how old are you ?

I didn’t know you had all that experience ?

We should chat about one of my possible upcoming Poker Sites and your future with it if it comes to be.
I always said I found you highly intelligent in the forums and now I read this.

Can’t message you…:frowning:

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Wasn’t clear who that was directed at. I assume it was not at me, because you say “I always said I found you highly intelligent in the forums” and this is pretty close to the only RPP forum post I have ever made.

In the unlikely event that it actually was about me, then:

I am 32.
I do not have very much experience in poker at all; I do have a fair amount of experience with several other things.
I am open to chatting at any time. I will provide contact details if it turns out that your post really was directed at me.

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