MTT scenario. You are from UTG, with like 40 BB. Dealer deals you K10off suited.
what do you have to do? The answer, talking in profitable moves in long term is just one: FOLD
Even worse, like in the case that happened at my table, if you LIMP, and then someone after you isolated its hand with whatever size (x2-x2.5-x3 etc) More than ever you have to FOLD!
Some high ranked players here, sometimes are stubborn I got this man at my table insinsting it was a nice hand to limp-call K10 off (just because his opponent flopped 2 pair, lmao). He was like 200 in the rank. Doesn’t matter, I said to him invane to just take my advice, lol. He kept saying the only thing people here can say: you are 2k in rank, I don’t waste time with people like you.
Just to be clear, this is a site of poker, where people come for fun! And I do understand that, and I think it’s very nice indeed. So, it’s legit to play like you want to play, even limping calling 72off from UTG with 15BB left…
But guys… if u never studied poker, even if u are well ranked, if u never studied at least the opening hands from the different positions of the table, keeping in mind your stack, and the others’, the stage of the tournament… please, just take an advice if someone tell you one,
Have a nice day or night everyone
You have to bless the poker gods for players like this. Kind of you to try and educate them but in the face of rudeness and ignorance in what should be a fun place, be grateful they’re on your table
Yes this is a good point. KT is a pretty useless hand. Almost as bad as K9. The main problem is that if you flop a king, then if you are up against AK, KQ, KK, or KJ you are going to lose a lot of chips. Unfortunately these are all hands that people love to play.
The other problem is that people may see this hand as a good one for trying to make a Broadway straight. The problem with this is that the only way to flop an open-ended straight draw with KT is if QJ appears on the flop. All the rest of your draws to a Broadway straight will be low probability gut shots. Of course, like any other hand, KT is capable of flopping a full house, but then so is 5 3.
Unless you hold KT in the Big Blind and everyone limps in so it doesn’t cost you anything more to see the flop, it’s pretty much a hand that is a long term loser.
How many players at the table? UG 6 handed is very different than UG 9 handed. Also, I’m not completely clear here if it is KTo or KTs we’re talking about.
I think KTo is probably a clear fold 40bb deep 6 handed or 9 handed unless you’re the big stack at the table. KTs is another matter: 6 handed I’d mostly be raising with it, and 9 handed whether I’d raise or fold would depend on a lot of table and tournament factors.
Interesting… according to charts from Michael Acevedo in his book, Modern Poker Theory, 40bb deep from the LJ (roughly equivalent to under the gun on a 6 handed table), KTo is supposed to be a raise, is still a raise UG+2, and splits between raising and folding UG+1, only flipping to a pure fold in first position 9 handed.
Hi Yorun, ofc we are talking about a UTG full ring position, so 9 peopl. KT off in 6 max, I suppose that it’s a clear open. The bottom I guess… (speaking about the off combo, not suited) and easy folding against a 3bet.
Yes, I just won a huge pot half an hour ago with King 10 unsuited. I limped from the button and I flopped two pairs on an A K T flop, and then another 10 came on the turn. Fortunately the player in SB made a large bet on the turn which was called by a second player in the BB. Unfortunately I raised a bit too high and they both folded when I expected at least one to call. Still I did pick up a couple million chips.
(The reason I limped in was for the surprise element as many players on RP will make huge bluffs if they think you have nothing.)
Regardless of what expert theory says, I think a lot of people who play on Replay Poker will have kicker trouble with King 10, because if another player catches a king with a better kicker, they are liable to get stacked, especially in tournaments, though objectively speaking K T is of course a lot better than Q T.
There is a world of difference between players on RP and expert professional players. Many players on RP don’t even seem to understand the significance of position and the advantages of playing from the button.
Very true, they play from every position in the same way (same ranges for every position).
Or also, they limp monsters from UTG or AK, thinking that it’s a nice move for surprise, not noticing (or even smelling) that if they limp everyone (ofc the Big Bling too, since it always pays) will see the flop with trash cards, maybe even hitting 2pairs, or tris with 72off suited. Smh
IF its a tournament, and If have a skill edge, and If have been extremely card dead, and If have good image, and If other players can fold preflop, postflop, If its between mid to semi almost semi late tournament, and if blinds go up soon, then If all of those things happening combined, then and only then is it ok to OCCASIONALLY either limp or minraise KT, UTG, UTG + 1, etc, and then CBET a Q9x, J9x type of board texture that missed flop on, and if hit flop still play it semi carefully.
Doing that mixes up your game, balances out range, etc.
I play that way, and am a very good player, and USUALLY dont lose BIG that way, and USUALLY either only lose a little tiny bit that way.
And if I do get caught with my hand in the cookie jar playing that way, then usually next time I raise UTG, I have something extremely go, and if hit flop, or dont get outflopped, I get paid off nicely by those that assume I play hands like KT that way all the time, when I USUALLY dont play hands like that UTG all the time, etc.
One time I was playing against an extreme calling station and he was talking trash and basically called me donk because I raise preflop and don’t limp every single hand like he does. A few hands later I won a big pot and he lost a big pot because he’s allergic to the fold button. I then said, “who has more chips at the table now?” then he replied he has more chips in the bank - yeah cause that was like a day after I just joined LOL. These people think just because they’ve been collecting their daily bonus forever that they’re good players.
I largely agree, but I think it can bee a bit more nuanced. By UTG, do we mean first to act on a table with 9 players, or does this possibly apply to 8 or 7 or even 6? By the time we get down to 6 handed, while I think folding is not usually bad, I think there are a lot of other considerations that would leave me mostly raising with this hand.
What about ICM considerations, at the final table, and if you are the big stack, say 62 big blinds deep, while the other 5 remaining players are 19, 12, 6, 9 and 7 big blinds deep? In this spot, while I don’t have an ICM solver or anything of that sort, I’d think the choice would be between a small raise and jamming all in, with the latter likely preferred.
Does that change on a site where 98% or more of your opponents won’t understand ICM considerations, and you won’t be getting the tight calling ranges justified by the situation? Probably… and I won’t pretend to know how. I guess I’m just wanting to point out that there are a lot of factors that impact the EV of various plays, and surprising plays can be profitable if the circumstances are right.
Oops… just now noticing I’d already responded on this thread and said nearly the same thing… I guess it is ok (I hope)… at least I added a little more detail.
Just for clarity, I do almost always fold KTo first to act with 9 players on a table.
@Yorunoame I always appreciate your insights… do you want to play some HU matches sometime? Could be interesting/educational… well, at least for me
I got this man at my table insinsting it was a nice hand to limp-call K10 off (just because his opponent flopped 2 pair, lmao). He was like 200 in the rank. Doesn’t matter, I said to him invane to just take my advice, lol. He kept saying the only thing people here can say: you are 2k in rank, I don’t waste time with people like you.