Yes, you can bluff in Omaha

We are generally looking for at least 2 of 3 key conditions to make a bluff favorable:

  1. Passive/disinterested opponents
  2. Dynamic board texture (“the nuts” changes from flop to river)
  3. Removal (“blockers”)

Example #1

Example #2

In the second example, a flush is still the nuts, but action to the river makes it unlikely either opponent has one.

Not for nothing, but I did go on to win the tournament :wink:

Younguru, Omaha High is bluffable IF your heads up by turn or river, and if the player doesnt have top set+, and has 2 pair or lower, and if like you said arent the typical common Omaha call station.

Omaha Hi, is a DRAWING game, and Omaha Hi Low is even more so. Most to almost all Omaha players even at the higher stakes, chase draws, call with Top 2 pair, Top set, straight, even if a better set, straight, boat is a possibility, probability. In Omaha, it has to be OBVIOUS, easy to see by them, that they are beat, before they will fold.

This means you can only only successfully bluff and not get called, etc, about 1%,2%,3%,4% of time in general.

Now if one lucks out and ends up in the right Omaha game, then can bluff more often.

Also Omaha players love to slowplay sets, straights, and beg to get beat by flushes, better sets, full houses, better straights, etc. So when one bluffs in Omaha, there is a 50%+ chance that the other player that looks passive, is slowplaying something that will call your bluff.

Even if can successfully bluff in Omaha. often its just too risky, combined with how if have a edge in knowledge on how to play better then opponents, one is better off just selecting the best hands to play, drawing, taking players to value town, and 1% of time bluffing. If play that way, other players usually wont adapt, adjust to that, and won’t notice, fold to that. And thats because Omaha is a speculative, drawing game+ where skill + a lot of luck gives players that are very skilled and that are lucky, a slight edge, that over the long term wins out, but takes longer to get to that long term in Omaha vs Hold Em, because there is more luck, variance, drawing, in Omaha then Hold Em.

So while can bluff in Omaha, most players probably should not bluff in Omaha, and probably only players such as yourself that can almost perfectly execute a bluff in the right spots and can identify those spots better then most, usually only players such as yourself in the right games should bluff.

Everybody else is probably better served just selecting the best starting hands, drawing, taking players to value town, using their skill, knowledge edge, and 1/2 0f 1% of time, bluffing.

And its even worse in Omaha Hi Low, as good luck bluffing in Omaha Hi Low. I have seen you do it successfully in Hi Low, but its extremely rare, or at least seems that way to me.

In Nordic O8 tournaments I would estimate that when I bet, I am bluffing about 20-30% of the time.

@lihiue has said elsewhere that you don’t really need to bluff to win on Replay, and he’s probably right. But the most profitable strategy in ANY no limit game will ALWAYS include a good proportion of bluffs. You’re not gonna win 7 tournaments in a quarter, or 4 out of 6 in a row, just by best-handing your opponents :wink:

I promise you @_snowman is bluffing more than 5% of the time too, even in O8, though I won’t ask him to divulge his strategy here.

You may be right that many players will struggle to profitably incorporate bluffs in these games, but to me that says they should practice the skill MORE, not less. Everyone’s too scared of losing. Personally, I’m just trying to get better all the time :smiley:

Of course you can :partying_face:

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of course! but the vast majority of players on Replay seem to have taken @Asuronetorius’ opinion above as gospel.

also, selfishly, it’s kind of my personal mission to get at least the thinking Replayers to bluff more often, as I’d like the games I play in to be played at a higher level :wink:

bruh stop leaking the strats

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Why do you think I was such a donk recently playing Omaha? Its because I stopped playing. Why did I stop playing Omaha? Because in my experience it was pointless trying to force folds in Omaha, Whether trying to protect your hands, or whether bluffing, as almost everybody calls as Omaha should be renamed CALL STATION, or DRAW, or SPECULATION, except at the highest pro stakes.

Now maybe your experience is different. And you play at the highest stakes, where one might be able to bluff, or bluff more. NL Hold Em is far better then Omaha for bluffing.

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I bluff in Omaha, always call me generally a bluff, :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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If I have a made Hi hand on the flop or turn, and the Lo has not yet completed, my STANDARD size from any position is 2-3x pot

You can still force folds from marginal speculative draws, but you have to really go big

I’m just gonna post more of these as they come in ;d

blocking 99 and 98, unblocking low straights, discontinued aggression and a dynamic river :smiley:

(this, plus the fact that we want to rep a full house, leads us to choose the giant size)

Don’t really need to - but can and should. I even bluffed one time myself :wink:

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Well that because you play in Nordic Warriors, RPOS, 5 mil stakes, etc. I also have noticed that in Nordic Warriors, RPOS, you can bluff or bluff more, andcan force folds, protect your hands, etc.

But everyplace else, Poker Stars, 5 to 10 casino’s offline, for YEARS, they didn’t fold to both value, bluffs, etc. And at Replay all the stakes up to, below 500k, doesnt fold either. It’s like the fold button doesn’t exist in Omaha, at Poker stars, casino’s, lower stakes at Replay etc.

To get a fold, protect hand from a draw, whether gutshot, flush, set, boat chase draws, you have to have at least 75 bb’s and shove 75+ bb’s all in postflop, and even then that only works 50% of the time.

The highest levels at replay you can force folds postflop in Omaha, but if go all in preflop, you get called about 67% of time. Outside the highest levels of Replay, at casinos, Poker Stars. etc, You can force folds preflop, even when go all in preflop, but postflop, its extremely hard to get a fold.

I got so tired, fed up with it, that I quit, stopped playing Omaha.

And that’s why I was out of practice, a Donk, and why I said I was a Omaha Donk, etc.

Unless everybody is going to play in Nordic Warriors, RPOS, 500k+ buy in, they are probably better off not bluffing, or bluffing 1 to 5% of time. My bluff rate in the Nordic Warriors is about 6 to 8 to 10 to 12% of the time, and half to 67% of those fail. I mainly use the bluffs not to force folds, but if it forces a fold great, if I get caught, which happens a lot because its Omaha, then see I bluff too.

But outside of RPOS, Nordic Warriors, below 500k buy in, I only bluff 1/2 of 1%, and just rely on knowledge of how to play, slight edge, AKA not make mistakes, don’t call big bets with 2 pair, dont call monster bets, an or all in’s with highest 2 pair, bottom, sets like set of 2’s, etc.

Omaha is a game, where most of the field doesnt know how to play as good, making mistakes, etc, so if 1 studies, learns, their edge will be big enough, that they won’t have to bluff, to have good results in both tournament, and ring play.

Why bluff when you can exploit the sh!t out of your competition , outside of Nordic Warriors, RPOS, Below 500k stakes.

If I may put forward a slice of personal philosophy, I feel that man has ruled this world as a stumbling demented child king long enough! and as his empire crumbles my precious Black Widow shall rise as his most fitting successor.
These words he speaks are true. We’re all humanary Stew if we don’t pledge allegiance to.
The Black Widow.
Vincent Price.
I didn’t have the pleasure of playing with the Black Widow very many times. But I did get to play with goatsoup for a year solid. He is a friend, and we still talk. He was a master of exploitive bluffing in Omaha 8 and NLHE. There was a reason that he won so many titles and tournaments, and it wasn’t waiting for the best hand. I learned a lot from him, he was in my eyes the best player that this site has seen, I am sure there are those that disagree. When I formed Nordic Warriors, multiple players came just to play him, He is missed. Luckily his friend snowman is continuing to show the influence the goat had on us.
I will not get into the nuances of what I witnessed, but he felted and caused more chip purchases/rebuys than any other player on this site IMO.

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@Asuronetorius nice thesis, but those example hands I posted include a 50k buy-in and a freeroll :confused:

My friend, I <3 you but you can be frustrating to converse with sometimes. For instance here, we disagree on what is possible/effective. I’ve now provided numerous counterexamples to your position, including reasoning. You haven’t said anything to engage with that evidence; you’re just repeating your position as if my side of the discussion doesn’t exist.

Why do you still think bluffing in Omaha is nearly impossible and requires a massive stack, despite my now 3 counterexamples that seem to illustrate this isn’t true?

In Omaha 8 there are very important critical opportunities. Only experience will show you where to make them happen. Being able to read the table, seizing the opportunities. Takes a considerable amount of understanding of the dynamics of Omaha 8.
Is it more important to trap and win chips maximizing chip intake over a period of time. Or is it the instant gratification of the bluff and a larger reward in the short term, that is the question.
I prefer both.

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That 50k buy in, freeroll, is a limited sample size, a exception. It’s not IMPOSSIBLE to bluff feeroll, 20k, 50k, 100k buy in’s, in public, non private league play, but its extremely unlikely for bluffs to be folded to, at the lower levels. Exceptions happen, but they don’t semi consistently happen at the lower levels over a semi large sample size. And even if you can. Replay would be the exception, compared to Poker Stars, Full Tilt, offline Casinos, etc. Your experience has been nowhere near my experience of YEARS of not seeing Omaha players knowing how to fold, use the fold button.

Replay, Nordic Warriors, 250k+ buy ins, are the only places where I have seen bluffs work in Omaha, which is why I’ll bluff, and do bluff, in those limited, specific, games, and either don’t bluff, or hardly ever bluff in all other Omaha games. I’ll just keep on exploiting the Sh!t out of Omaha players, instead of bluffing, except in the limited, specific Omaha games I do occasionally bluff.

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By all means buddy, do what works for you! Cheers!

In 3 different hands in the leagues invitational Omaha Hi Low with Top Nordic Warrior players:

Hand 1: Flopped a set, bet half pot on flop. Bet BIG Pot sized on turn, and Draw called and hit their draw.

Hand 2: Had 2 pair plus draw. Bet half pot on flop. Shoved all in 1.15 x pot sized bet, 2 pair, bottom 2 pair + Draw called.

Hand 3: Had top pair + top kicker + draw, bet half pot on flop, called pot sized bet on turn on draw.

All 3 hands called, and hit their draws. I had a tight image, I rarely bluff in Omaha, I bet BIG, and they still called on, with their draws. This shows, proves that either the fold button does not exist in Omaha, or only exist if have 50 bb’s and shove tripple pot all in. This was against some of the better, best Omaha player’s, murderer’s row, Nordic Warriors, etc. This shows, proves that can’t force folds, semi bluff, bluff, etc.

They just kept calling, hitting their draws, enroute from going from 5k start stack 200 bb’s to bust out.

This is why Omaha is a DRAWING GAME, where fold button rarely exist, and where usually can’t force folds, and Why I rarely semi bluff, bluff, and just play the drawing game like everybody else.

But I explicitly said you have to wait for passivity or discontinued action, and use a very large size.

None of these instances is a counterexample to my position. If anything, they reinforce my point: you won’t get folds against interested opponents unless you go really big. That’s why most of my bluffs in Omaha come in configurations where opponents have already checked (preferably twice), the board has become scary for holdings like weak 2pair, and there’s enough behind to bet 1.5x pot or more.

You’re talking about getting live draws to fold; I agree that’s very hard to do. I agree you mostly shouldn’t expect them to fold with such hands. We want to bluff when we block the nuts, it’s clear opponent probably doesn’t have the nuts anyway, and the board has changed since last action so there’s “something for them to worry about”