On the question of the new html5 thing, will we still be able to play on Win7 OS or Linux OS ?
@Bluezzz, the league I’m talking about explicitly has a rule that the winner must show their hand, every hand. In general play, you’re correct, no one must show their hand, and can do so at their discretion. However, in the Poker Disclosure league, everyone joining the league agrees to always show. It’s just a thing we do, a bylaw that makes the league unique.
Ok, well, then guess I do not go to the league and maybe some good players think the same, why reveal their edge…
Taking away the edge forces you to be a better player, and it teaches you something about the game. Besides, when everyone does it, everyone’s playing with the same disadvantage, so it’s still fair.
Playing in a No Muck League isn’t for everyone , since not everyone likes the idea of showing cards.It is surprising though how much you can learn by seeing the hands that win. I have had players who were interested in joining the League and when they were told about the rule decided not to join , others love the idea and use it as a way to improve their game or just want a different aspect of the game. Both Leagues with this rule have a small buy in so you aren’t risking any big chips.Also it is a friendly game where you get to know Members and just have fun .
1 Like
Well said 
2 Likes
I hope you realize we only play this way in these leagues.
In a normal NLHE tourney we would play differently but at the same time maybe feel we have somewhat of an “edge” in reading our opponents moves.
1 Like
my goodness you make a mistake and your nailed to the cross new to the site and ond no one said anything no worries I no longer plan to play anyhow good luck to all
I think if this is implemented into the tournies,it would result in the less bluffing from players who just bluff most of the time and just raise on total crap cards…its a disease they have and whatever little skill they have they dont want to hone thier skill…its just the same style of playing to contstantly bluff…so i presume by honouring this virtue of showing the hand will put them in in the limelight of showing constant bluffs…(could embarass them to hell lollll)…moreover poker is about reading cards whats going to happen from a negative point of view (if you look at that way) you will be able to read the players cards better …as the basic tendency of many players is too bluff thier way thru…its not going to do down well with constant bluffers…at some point they may have some shame and some just dont …they dont care about chips,ranking or standings…ive seen many players here for few years and with no over 100k chips in thier bank …they keep coming to the 50k 20k tables and making a mess…ofcourse with no real money on the line its more of pleasure playing and loving the suck outs…
Personally i think its great…bluffing and winning hands is part of the game but not the integral part ,its part of your arsenal…hope this is impemented and if it comes down to a vote you have mine …
I don’t care about chips, rankings, or standings, and I feel no shame whatsoever about bluffing. Why should I be ashamed about an intergral part of the game?
You seem to think there is no skill involved in bluffing. You’re totally wrong about that. One has to know when, where, how, who and why to bluff. It’s not a random “Oh, I’ll raise J3o here” kind of thing.
People should be ashamed if they never bluff. I mean really, if you don’t have the skill, just wait for the nuts and min bet, I guess. And if someone doesn’t have the guts to bluff on a free site, they should go see the Wizard of Oz for a little courage.
If those who like “no muck” options for their private leagues, there’s no harm in it. Since I would never want to play in such a league, it doesn’t hurt me in the least. If it would help make their time on Replay more enjoyable, by all means implement the feature.
Just know that it’s an insult to suggest that everyone who bluffs has no skill. Most of them have as much skill as most, plus a whole extra set of bluffing skills. All things being equal, those who understand the bluffing game have far more skill than those who don’t.
2 Likes
Seconded. I’ve occasionally run into players who have claimed that they never bluff, or who try to put me down for bluffing. I find this amusing. For one, if you don’t bluff, you’re losing a lot of chips. No-bluffers are playing with one hand tied behind their back. For two, if my bluffs are so transparent and weak, then you might want to shut up about it and call or raise me.
Back to the Disclosure league, I enjoy the “winner must show” rule. Which is a bit different from a “no muck rule”. No much would imply that everyone folds face-up, and that the winner shows.
I like it as a variation. The league is low stakes, and the chips won are not the point, the winning is. It’s good a good practice or training game. You can see what someone’s playing and how they’re playing it, and it can help you develop insights and strategies of your own.
I don’t find that it discourages bluffing. No one knows what you’re holding until you show, so it’s entirely possible to bluff when you need to, and in some sense bluffing may even work better because people don’t have to call you to get to see the winning hand, making it more likely that they’ll fold to a bluff.
It’s fine if it’s not your favorite way to play, but why knock it? If the opponents are good players, the game is good. Playing more variety can help you improve in your main game.
Just to be clear, I’m not knocking it. I just said I wasn’t interested in playing with that rule.
When you said “I would never play in such a league” it came across as an anti-endorsement. Since you’re one of the higher ranked players on the site, and pretty active on the forums, I tend to think of you as one of the more influential personalities around here… and, well, we are trying to grow the league to where we can reliably fill at least one table on a given night.
So, rather than turn say you’d never play it, why not maybe give it a chance? Worst case, it’s an hour of your life you’ll never get back.
If you ever see me playing in such a league, please set my hair on fire and shank me repeatedly with a sharpened toothbrush. Then bury me up to my neck near an ant hill, cover me with honey, and use my eyes as practice for your dart game.
And no, I’m not knocking it. I’m saying I’m not interested in ever playing in such a league. Never, under any circumstances.
Such a league would have a lot of value to a wide range of players. If you think it might help your game, by all means, join and start playing today. I have no doubt it will improve your game.
If I have any influence at all, which is highly questionable, it’s because I tell the truth as I see it. That’s all I am doing here.
Poker is a game of making correct decisions. Correct decisions rely on information. I control what information I distribute, and what information I don’t. If my opponent has a gun, the last thing I would do is run out and buy him some bullets.
1 Like
I understand the apprehension. On the other hand, you’re getting the same information on their hands, too. Imagine being so good at poker that you can beat your opponent even when they get this information on you.
I totally agree that bluffing is a skill and is part of the game.
The no muck rule in the league is not to discourage bluffing…there are players at our tables that bluff or semi-bluff and get a “nh” or “wp” from the other players when they show.
Always showing may get to the point of everyone in the league being able to read each other at some point but so what…that just means it’s time to switch up strategies again.
I can confidently say Poker Disclosure and Poker Amusement have helped my MTT and SnG play substantially.
1 Like
If you think I am not interested out of “apprehension,” then clearly, you don’t understand.
If I ever let ego drive me like that, please take a cheese grater to my face, then drown me in burning gasoline as you hack off my feet with a dulled spork made of 100% recycled vegan tofu.
I don’t think I ever suggested that the rule is designed to cut down on bluffing.
I said is that I am not interested in playing in a league that has that rule.
I have also said that I think it would be a great idea to make it easier for those who wish to play that way to play that way. All companies should be driven by the customer’s desires. If enough customers want this feature to justify its development cost, by all means, implement the feature. That’s just common business sense.
I control the flow of information to what extent I can as a matter of basic principal. Nothing anyone can say will change my mind on this.
“In matters of style, swim with the currents. In matters of principal, stand like a rock.” Thomas Jefferson
I guess I don’t get it. To me, this is like saying that you would never play Omaha, because it’s against your principles to not play all your hole cards. Showing the winning hand in Disclosure League isn’t violating any principle. It’s an additional rule agreed to by the players. You may not enjoy it, and that’s all the reason you need not to play. But it’s not anathema to the spirit of poker to play this variation.
Sunpower,you have misunderstood my message- i have clearly written bluffing is part of the game…we all do it but its not a ritual to bluff 8 out of 10 hands…im talking of these players…when did you bluff 80% of your hands? i doubt it ever…
As far as not knowing what they holding…good players make great reads here…your betting pattern suggests your cards…never underestimate them thinking you can bluff them out consistently…
i agree its part of the armour but its not everything…my point is stressed on those constant bluffers…
Yes, ok. I did take your message to be an attack on bluffing in general. Sorry.
Most mistakes made in poker are frequency related. Bluffing too much is as bad as not bluffing enough. Calling too much is as bad as not calling enough. Same is true of folding, raising, and so on.