Replay Ranks

Poker Discussion
1

It has come to my attention (and the attention of many others I’m sure) that there’s an increasing number of players/forum posters, who keep using Replay ranks for self-praise and to judge others.

Some ranked under 500 are suggesting that players ranking under 1000 are “the elite” and the rest are “unworthy”. Another player ranking around 200 thinks that those ranked in the 500’s are “fish”. Some players in the top 10 think that lower ranking players “do not understand the game” and “make very simplistic analysis”. The arrogance some people have developed because of having accumulated certain amounts of play chips (bought or gained, same thing) has gone past poker skills comparison and became a matter of looking down on others, for some weird and inexplicable reason.

I am not going to talk about whether or not the chip count is a measure of skill and if Replay rankings should mean much for that matter. It’s like beating a dead horse. Let’s keep this point aside. And let’s all take a moment to reflect on the human factor here.

We are all respectful human beings (some of us more than others probably, but still), from different backgrounds, different cultures, and different fields. Some of us are lawyers, others are engineers, mathematicians, vets, pharmacists, housewives, etc… The list is endless. But we are all here for fun, to play poker, and to interact with others. A lot of us are more important in real life than some others would even dream of becoming. But they never mention it or brag about it. And that’s the real strength.

A little humility and modesty go a long way. A player ranked above 1 million who respects everyone is in my opinion better than a player who ranks in the top 10 and looks down on others or calls them names. And same goes for a player who ranks in the top 10 and respects others and doesn’t talk down to them or look at them as lesser in any way, shape or form. That’s the true strength.

Whoever you are, if you truly believe that a fake chip balance can put you in a position to demean or look down on others, you’re weak and probably suffer from an inferiority complex.
And whoever you are, if you respect everyone no matter how high your rank is, and you don’t say anything that could offend others just based on their rank, you’re the real hero on this site.

Some of my closest friends on this site are ranked under 500, a few even ranked under 50, and they are the nicest, most respectful players I’ve met here. Never once have they bragged about their ranks or called anyone else a fish or a donk or insulted them because they have lower ranks. One of them is a doctor. Another is a lawyer. Another speaks 7 languages and has traveled the world.

So please, next time you want to patronize someone else using your rank or theirs as a justification, think again… You’re not better than others, and your poker skills and fake free chips don’t give you the right to talk down to anyone.

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Well said!

I play the person not the rank and open invitation to top rank players to join any table I am on and put their skills to the test but be aware I save those hands in my profile for high ranked players that talk chit and then get a lesson.

I am not the best or worst but I will give you a challenge and make it fun!

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Well, it appears to me that you are trying to teach a pig to sing…it dont work and it irritates the pig…

(and, being ranked under 200…I know what I am talking about)

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I agree with u county and i would like to know who these players are. Its not fair to assume anyone at a particular rank assumes anything about anyone but i do know many high ranked players that have earned all their chips and worked hard to get there and value what they earned and remember how hard it was to get there, even though they are fake chips they were still earned. I feel that the high ranked players give more good advice to players that want to get some tips to get ahead. I know i tried to learn as much as i could from not just the high ranked but from all players i saw that played well and were always tops of the leader board and tried to get on their table to play and maybe learn a few things and had great respect for there help and feedback. It seems in the last few years that the high ranked players are not getting the respect anymore and instead are constantly getting attacked on and off the tables from much lower ranked players that insist they bought their chips and not earned them and their play doesnt match their rank. So they are being constantly attacked by those that talk down to them and all they did is earn their rank and help so many others out with their knowledge of the game. I do agree however that there are many great players that are not high ranked, but that shouldnt mean the high ranked players that earned their chips should get punished or insulted and looked down on by getting talked to that rank means nothing. Replay doesnt have ranks for no reason even tho it doesnt tell or mean anything. I would just have fun playing and keep learning as much as possible about the game and choose who and what u wanna listen to for advice on improving your play and game and respect everyone at any rank. i see more low ranked players talking down to and challenging the high rankers than high rankers talking down on and challenging the lower rankers, so it goes both ways.

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Thank you for your insightful post, Maya.
If I understood you correctly, you don’t mean people should not be proud of their achievements (we all are!), but simply not use them to belittle others. And this seems very reasonable to me.

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Yep, exactly.but i would love to hear from some top 100 and even top 10 players on this topic as i really do consider myself a small fish rank wise compared to them :slight_smile: just to get some insight on how they view their rank and feel about things u mentioned, but they are probably too busy to post by upping their rank playing on the tables lol. it really is a good topic tho because so many, both high and low ranked players may view all of this differently. would be good to know how all different ranked players feel about their own rank and others rank too and the whole ranking system here since rank seems to be the talk of the town and tables now. Hope we get some good feedback so everyone can respect everyone elses rank and play by understanding them more. Thx for the great forum post !

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Well done Maya. You have a great perspective on this matter and hopefully you will persuade others. Even if they don’t agree with you, maybe they will be able to disagree in a more agreeable fashion.

This is a social poker site. Think of it as an online version of a home game. Now, we all have friends who are terrible at poker but we like being around them. If you wouldn’t think of insulting your buddy across the table in your house, why do you think its ok here? Sure, in a moment of frustration we all have said something impolite but it shouldn’t be our go-to. Just lighten up a bit.

As to rank, I’ve made my view clear more times than I can count. I’ve come to accept its a thing and the site likes it so I can either accept it or beat my head against a rock for no reason. I choose to accept it out of kindness to the rock. Is it any indication of skill? At both ends of the curve, I think it is likely predictive of skill over time. Not perfect but predictive. Aside from those very tail ends of the curve, I’m not sure it means much at all. I’ve seen someone come in and go bonky-aggro and spin up his bankroll to 2 billion+. He played stoned a lot and eventually went broke but for a while he was top 10. I know other people who play pretty solid ABC poker who don’t have huge bankrolls. Some play tournaments only and some have settled in to playing with others at the lowest possible stakes here. People would be surprised that some of the tables at the Duck Pond play a whole lot stronger than the Hagia Sophia on any given night. There are players in the top-50 who are simply weak but they play a lot and aren’t quite as weak as others. I would put money on a few people ranked 1000+ to take many/most top-50 players over 1000+ hands.

Anyway, what does rank matter? That’s up to you. If it is something you use to drive yourself, then that’s great. If its something you use to judge others by, I’d caution to be careful about it. You will learn more by playing a few orbits with someone that you will by their rank. If you can’t tell after a few orbits, you aren’t paying enough attention and no matter what their rank is, it won’t give you any idea what to do about it.

As for me, I consider rank to be meaningful at the tails (think 5-sigma) but as you move in from those tails, its mostly meaningless in terms of predictive power. However, it may be very meaningful as a goal to the player wanting to get from 5000 to 4000 or whatever.

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Nice post Maya!

I would add more, but I’m convinced those with higher ranks probably can’t read, and those with lower ranks probably just bought their chips, are very lucky, and/or have a cousin who works at Replay, so why bother?

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i agree warlock, to me and im sure to so many others the best use of having it is to use it as a tool or reference point and guideline or measurement to get from A to B on getting to a level u are trying to get to, then using it for the next milestone u wanna get to. If your rank keeps improving then that means you are on an upward trend of winning chips which means winning games. I think by using it that way it can keep u in check with reaching your goals. So it may be important for the player tracking their progress but doesnt mean it means anything to anyone else.

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I play and treat players the same way , no matter what their ranks . I have friends with a 5k bankroll and others with a 200mill+ bankroll. The important thing is that I have fun , that is all that matters. Chips are actually worthless but the enjoyment and friends I made on this site are priceless.

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All valid comments and I agree that many great players are not highly ranked, but gee, I do love trying to beat those players with a very high ranking even if I often take a hiding trying! So thank you to the players with high rankings, without you I wouldn’t have anywhere near as much fun.

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We should be careful when assigning motives to people’s posts.

Assessing a player’s skill level is an important part of the game. Their skill level will often influence your actions. Against a “fish,” for example, one would bluff less and value bet more. This has nothing to do with that person on a personal level, it has to do with their observed tendencies and frequencies, and can help you put them on a particular range of possible holdings in any given hand.

When we discuss a specific hand, it’s necessary to share as much information as one can in order to provide the context for that hand. This includes your perception of your opponent’s skill level. “Fish,” “Calling Station,” and so on are standard “shorthand” terms describing particular playing styles and/or experience levels, and usually aren’t directed at the person being described.

In other words, calling someone a “fish,” for example, doesn’t mean that you think they are an idiot. It’s a way of describing a particular type of play.

Ranking is a small and imprecise measure of someone’s general skill, but it’s not a totally useless piece of information. Mentioning someone’s rank and observed tendencies in a poker discussion thread doesn’t mean you look down on them as a person.

Final note: I don’t respect everyone. I respect those I deem worthy of respect. I try to not be disrespectful to anyone, but that’s not the same thing. Respect is earned, not simply given to everyone.

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SPG I totally agree. And like everybody else, I too use the terms “fish” and “calling station”, “bingo” etc… to describe someone’s play style. They’re not insults at all when you’ve played with someone and want to make note of or describe their style.

However, looking at someone’s rank and immediately assuming they’re a “fish” or a “donk” just because of how many chips they have in the bank is absurd. Especially when we, ourselves, decide where the threshold is. For example, saying “X’s rank is above 1000, then he’s definitely a fish” when your rank is 500, without even playing with X enough times to make this decision about them, is not exactly logical, is it?

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Great post. I do use rank to predict ability of unknown players, but it’s not a great predictor. Players who mainly play tourneys will have lower rank because there just aren’t as many chips to be won. Plus, poker skill is far from a perfect predictor of intelligence and an even worse predictor of character.

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@JoeDirk thank you for your reply. I couldn’t agree more!

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No, that doesn’t seem that logical to me. I also don’t remember anyone ever saying something like that. I do remember a recent post where a player mentioned that he had a note of someone saying they called 3 streets with top pair, no kicker, and then combined this with that player’s rank to conclude he was a “fish.”

Oddly enough, the player then assumed the “fish” understood that the flop hit his range hard and understood the meaning of his check-raise, and must have been playing the same sorts of ranges that the “shark” understood to be correct. Bewildering, to say the least, but there it is. Projection is a funny thing sometimes.

“When a pickpocket meets a Holy Man, he sees only the pockets.” - Hari Dass

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SPG Do you really think that’s the post I had in mind when I started this topic? I’m talking about a whole wave in the forums lately.

It’s very nice of you to see the Holy Man and not only the pockets in that specific thread, but it looks like you’re missing the Holy Man which is the forums in general and focusing on the pockets which are this 1 thread.

It just so happens that the player you’re referring to, is someone I have so much respect for, and someone who never used ranks to offend anyone (to my knowledge at least).

I just want to be clear that the examples I gave are not about anyone specific, and I hope nobody makes them so. It’s a general idea, and they are what they are, just examples. :wink:

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I have no idea what post(s) you were talking about. I said I don’t remember anyone acting like their rank put them above someone else. I mentioned the only post that I do remember that mentioned ranks, and said it was used in combination with other data to arrive at an approximation of that player’s general skill level.

Top rated player Phil Hellmuth thinks everyone is a donk… so what?

My basic point, for those who missed it, was that it’s probably a good idea to be tolerant of other people’s comments unless we can somehow fully understand their motives.

I’m not being critical of anyone. I’m not lecturing anyone on what they should or shouldn’t do or say or think or feel. I offered my opinion, do or don’t do with it as you will.

Peace

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Is everyone a donk though? LOL

Hellmuth thinks so many things. Most of them are R rated and can’t even be repeated :joy:

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All player rank >6 is poker fish but can be nice person :slight_smile:
I love them many fish. Fish in skill but can be smart other way in life
Rank 1-6 solid player
Rank 7-200 is ok but fish. Some is big fish
Rank 200-1000000 is biggest fish
I played it many player so you trust me
If cannot make rank 200 in 2 week you are fish

All tourney player is big fish cos highest buyin tourney is all fish I try it
All player who say their rank doesn’t mean their fish is biggest fish on site

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