I am “JohnnyOregon” on the button, image below.
I had an apparent winner post-flop. Turn-10. Strategy advice, please…
Better that I call “all in” on the turn? Or better that I fold?
Here’s how the hand played out: Log In · Get into our Poker Games - Replay Poker
Many thanks!
Johnny
difficult choice… I’d chance it.
Fold.
The other two players can’t both have a 5, so at least one of them has a ten. Ignore the absolute strength of your hand - any time your opponents only need one of their cards to play to beat you, your hand is not that strong.
The biggest mistake here is preflop. You have a suited wheel ace on the button, and multiple players have limped into the pot. This is the textbook spot to squeeze! You should bet big preflop, like 80 chips at least, to try to either take down the pot or get it heads up when you are in position with a hand that can make the nuts multiple ways.
Note that both villains had QTo which likely folds to a large 3bet, or calls and has to give up on a lot of flops when you cbet. Instead they got to see the cheapest flop possible and only put in more money once they make a great hand.
“Don’t go broke in unraised pots” is not always good advice (if we never go broke in those spots, we are exploitable by overbluffers), but I think it applies here. In limped pots we should remember that ranges are undefined and wide open. There are so many combos of Tx in their ranges!
(BTW I said “raise to at least 80” pre but I would probably use a size more like 120 or even 150. When the absolute size of 1bb is small, players tend to underappreciate raises. I bet if four players limp for 10 and we make it 80, we get 3 or 4 calls a high percentage of the time.)
The key here is that it’s 3-handed and both Villains are confident. Very good chance that one of them has you beat. The advantage of position allows us to fold here, and this spot is pretty scary for the baby boat.
Heads-up though, with the stacks roughly the size of the pot, often that shove could be an A, because an A often wins the 2-pair board.
My friend, this situation is a predicament… if ur gut
Says, “i feel like im beat,” fold.
FOLD----
See it ALL the time–small cash games and here–ppl. think full house, GREAT for me-----other player (or players) usually have the higher boat (unless they a clueless Donk lol )…ok, i been there n called n lost a couple of times ( i honestly sick at hold-em ) and learned the hard way------so FOLD:).
I don’t disagree with your analysis. Eighty chips is the low-stakes equivalent of a value bet. The thing is, Johnny appears to be a less experienced player than you. Don’t assume he understands terms like 3-bet (reraise), c-bet (continuation bet on the flop after raising pre), ranges (the whole gamut of hands your opponent might reasonably have), and Tx (not that little bit of Texas at the top left on the map, but rather any hand with a ten in it). Use layman’s terms.
Two things.
First, if you’re Johnny Oregon here, you’re Johnny Oregon at the table.
Second, there are two fives on the board, you have another, and there are two people in the pot before you. Maybe one of them is bluffing, or maybe they have JJ/QQ/KK/AA, but two of them? Nuh-uh. The odds are one or both have a ten. Time to go to Ray’s and drown your sorrows in a Black Butte Porter.
I appreciate your insights. Indeed I am new to the game. Thanks for the breakdown.
Thank you, Bill. I’ve watched this hand about ten times, and I see now that I should have folded on the Turn.
Pat, what you said is exactly what my intuition was telling me. And I didn’t listen to my intuition. (Because I hadn’t ever faced this kind of a balls-to-the-wall hand before.) Thank you, Pat. Johnny
Very sage insight. Thank you.
Thank you!
“Ignore the absolute strength of your hand.” That’s EXACTLY what the inner voice was telling me a half second after I clicked with regret to stay in the hand on the Turn. Thank you, lihiue.
Guru, thank you for your skilled analysis. Indeed, some of your abbreviations are new to me, but I’ll study your response and can always look up the lingo. Much appreciated.
Pre flop you want to be mostly either raising or folding. This gives you a chance to win the hand right away, or if you get called there will be a) fewer opponents on average, as some will fold to you raise, b) more money in the pot, with you as the aggressor - an advantageous position.
If people at your table are playing passively pre flop, it’s okay to also limp in with some of your more marginal hands - think suited king highs, lower broadway cards like QJ, or small pocket pairs like 44. But in general you want to raise and reraise with all your strongest hands (AA,KK,QQ,JJ, AK/AQ) as well as some “bluff” hands that can either make the nuts or make it less likely your opponent has one of the strongest hands (suited aces, suited connected cards like 78s, high Broadways like KQ).
A hand like Ad5d is a great candidate to raise with because it is less likely your opponents have AA when you hold one ace, and you can make both the wheel straight (A2345) and the nut flush in diamonds if you get called and have to play post flop.
As a beginner, I think it’s a lot better to call if you’re not sure. You’re going to figure out people’s tendencies a lot quicker if your willing to pay to see a few showdowns, rather than just operating on assumptions.
It’s just in this case you don’t need to - the other players are already all in - and the price is too high given how rarely you’re going to win.
