What to consider when staking another player?

Replay Poker Poker Strategy
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Playing a long tournament can be a daunting task so why not let someone else to do it for you, and enjoy the ride? Especially if that someone is more talented?

Where’s the fun in that, you ask? If you play for fun and live for the money hunt then there truly isn’t a point. But if you want to make an “easy” buck you should at least consider it.

What is staking?

Every poker tournament has its buy-in. And depending on the size of that buy-in a player may consider it to be too high for his bankroll or simply wishes to mitigate the risk with outside funding, and this is when staking steps in.

The player who plays with money that others have invested in him is usually called a horse in the staking terminology.

When a horse sells his action it means that the player offers a part (or even all) of the monetary value of his buy-in to be bought by other people and in exchange the buyers get a piece of the possible winning.

If the horse is a good enough player he knows his value and often wants to charge a premium for his play. This premium is called a Markup.

And this is where things start to get tricky…

Depending on the staking platform/horse you may have an option to buy a stake only from the first buy-in (the first bullet) when the player enters the tournament, but not from other bullets if the player loses and re-enters. This poses a problem. If the player is well staked on his first bullet and determined to re-enter if necessary, nothing prevents him from taking unnecessary risks on the first try, and if he wins with later bullets there is no money for buyers to collect.

At least one site offers the opportunity to get a piece of all the player’s bullets which sounds better and more fair, but one must understand that your share becomes diluted if the player wins only after additional bullets.

What dilution means?

Lets say that you bought 10 percent from a 22 dollar buy-in and there is no Markup. The horse wins 492 dollars with his first bullet. The math is simple. Ten percent of 492 is 49,20 dollars.

But, if the horse wins with his second bullet your share shrinks. The result comes from a formula where $2.20 is the price of your share, and it is divided by the total amount of buy-ins. In this case the tournament buy-in is $22 x 2 = $44. So your share of the winning is now ($2.20 / $44) = 5 percent which makes your cut from the $492 to be $24.60. Still a nice sum. But if the horse wins with his 4th bullet your share shrinks even further to $12.30.

All of this is of course wishful thinking. If your horse barely even makes it to min-cash (maybe $36) you will get a tiny win, but if 2 to 4 bullets are used you don’t even break even.

Adding Markup to the mix

Your horse has decided to charge 1.35 Markup. What does that mean? It is not a dollar value but it is a value that you should consider in your calculations. I’ll use the same example as earlier.

The original 10 percent is $2.20 but with 1.35 Markup (2.20 x 1.35) you’ll now have to pay $2.97 for your share. If the horse is able to sell say 80% of his buy-in he has made a $1.76 profit even before the game begins if he uses only the first bullet. If the horse wins the same $492 as earlier with his first bullet you still make a great profit, but if he only makes the min-cash ($36) your profit is only 63 cents when compared to the $1.40 when no Markup was involved.

What to think of all this?

Before, becoming a horse was mostly available for well known high profile players, but now with the help of a poker site (which name I’m not going to mention) the playing field is wide open also for micro level staking. It is interesting and exciting but when money is involved scammers can’t be ruled out.

When you are thinking of staking of someone first do your homework. How has that player performed in the past? What is the player’s long term ROI? Look the player up in Sharkscope or in other services and do your due diligence. Be also mindful about the game the player is about to enter. Is it on the same level with player’s past performance or is the player trying to climb up the stakes? Your job is to find the best possible horse!

At the end, if a horse can’t deliver results in the long run - the player won’t be a horse much longer.

4 Likes
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Sounds too complicated to deal with.

If you are a crusher you will not sell stakes (unless you are doing it for your fans to sweat with you), or buy stakes from other players. also it is easy for you to get scam. I suggest to study and get good yourself.

and if you have that itch of gambling, cuz that is what it is when staking someone. Just bet on your favorite sport team.

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A lot of details in the text, Naforole. Thanks for posting.

I’m not a fan of staking in poker.

Staking inherently introduces a level of risk that’s often difficult to accurately assess. Even if you perform thorough due diligence, researching a player’s history, analyzing their long-term ROI, and scrutinizing their past tournament performances, there’s still no guarantee that they will perform well in any given event. Poker is a game of skill, but it’s also one of variance, and even the best players can have off days or encounter unlucky streaks.

When players are using other people’s money, there’s a potential shift in their decision-making process. The psychological impact of playing with someone else’s funds can lead to taking unnecessary or overly aggressive risks. They might be less conservative with their plays, knowing that their own bankroll isn’t on the line, which can result in poor decision-making and ultimately, losses. This is particularly concerning if the player is aware they have multiple buy-ins available through staking. The first bullet could become a throwaway attempt, with the player taking high-variance lines in hopes of a big stack, knowing they have the safety net of additional buy-ins. If these risks don’t pay off, as a backer, your investment is quickly depleted.

This risk is compounded in large field tournaments where the variance is already high, making it even harder for a player to consistently cash, let alone win. Even if the player is talented, the unpredictable nature of poker means that the outcome is never certain, and the possibility of them underperforming or busting out early is always present. Therefore, staking is not just about evaluating a player’s skill, but also about understanding and accepting the inherent risk of variance and the potential for your investment to return nothing.

Instead of being a surefire way to make an “easy buck,” staking involves significant uncertainty and potential downsides that, for me, outweigh the possible rewards. The combination of these factors makes it clear that staking is not just about choosing the right player, but also about being prepared to accept the substantial risks that come with it.

Not for me. Pass.

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Just only buy action from Rampage. That guy always hits :smiley:

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My understanding is that it is not possible here at Replay?

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If u stake someone u dont know u can tell him to open his sharkscope for example or send u results. The first option is obv better since it’s more transparent.

It’s also recommend to put a stop loss of a certain amount. U don’t want to loose endless money and at some point losses have to be cut and we have to maybe admit that its not a profitable investment.

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You are correct Colby Road, staking is not allowed on Replay, you may buy chips for another player via your bank account here if you wish to donate chips.
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Thank you for this post! These are questions I have considered but not in the detail you have provided. I have bought stakes in players that I think are good bets and that I know personally, but I have always been uncomfortable with markup and with multiple bullets. Some like the staking sites but I prefer to stake directly with the player. I have decided that I do not agree with markup on the front end…it just doesn’t site right with me since I stake only amateur or semi-pro players. I think getting staked to play more poker with less variance is enough of an incentive and markup is just over the top. I also have struggled with players who post multiple bullets on the sites…why would anyone want to buy a stake in bullet #1 when they player has posted buy-ins for 4 bullets? Just seems shady to me.

Lately, the model I have preferred is where the markup only comes into play after the player has broken even and goes into profit in the package. The package includes multiple events and multiple bullets and the player sells “shares.” Some of the players have been consistently profitable and some have not. I will likely not stake the players again that were not profitable this year. Some have also been greedy in this method, as well. The usual option is that once the player goes into profit, the winnings are split 60-40 (investors-player), but I have seen some players want to change it to 30-70 (investors-player)…just over the top to me and a definite turn off.

1 Like
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I have both staked, been staked at Pokerstars and Full Tilt Poker. If the player is a Semi Pro, Shark, very good, the player is stake for a certain number of events, and certain number of bullets per event, and Staker gets same share no matter how many bullets. and Horse gets 53% of the winnings, after staker gets paid back to where investment is break even.

If its a semi good to good to semi amateur, semi shark, etc, then a less amount of events, and bullets per event, and Horse gets 47% to 50% after staker investment paid back.

If it’s a average to above average to semi good player then less events, less bullets, and Horse gets 40% to 43% after staker investment paid back

If it’s a below average to average to unknown player, then even less events bullets, and Horse gets 27% to 33% after Staker gets investment paid back.

Only well known pros, and well known very good players, etc, get more events, bullets, and 60% to 65% to 70% to 75% and gets that before Staker investment paid back, and gets mark up, etc.

Even Pros like Negreanu, Phil Ivey, J Little, etc, even they don’t charge big mark up, and dont get 75% to 80% to 85% to 90%, etc. They probably could get that, but they usually don’t get that, so that their fans will have fun staking them, following them, and to have great content of a lot of engaged, participating, etc, fans, etc.

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If the person is skilled at poker and you trust them, staking can actually be a smart move sometimes. It’s a way to invest and still be part of the game without all the pressure on yourself.

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Well I participated in some stake threads on CC , but I didn’t have decent results . So e others did have . You really have to invest on a good horse , and as less money as possible . Many scams do happen and some have lost hundreds or thousands of dollars to scammers

Also the mark up thing I do not like it . Somebody is so good , that why he asks for a mark up ?? And if you are so good , why do you need the stake in the first place ?! . I would never stake an with a mark up .

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“Also the mark up thing I do not like it . Somebody is so good , that why he asks for a mark up ?? And if you are so good , why do you need the stake in the first place ?! . I would never stake an with a mark up .”

Think you just answered your own question…
Why would you pay a better player, any sport , more then a lesser 1?"cause he is good, better etc…what a question lol
Think no question at al, your just 2 cheap, not willing to pay for the skills your hiring. You’re insulting!

Also, no wonder ur 'betting’on the wrong horse, maybe learn 2 play yourself ? Ino, crazy idea right… or just go play the lottery or something

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…and …Time == Money

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Ce site est merveilleux, je suis émerveilllé

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First, he should be a trustworthy person, then he should be a good player, someone who likes to study poker, watch videos, watch other players, read reviews, etc.

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A quite interesting topic!
I have heard about that a few times but im not familiar with this really, because i love to play poker
by myself, so i would say i wont come in touch with it in the near future.
But if this will be more popular i will overthink my opinion to make some bucks by trying to get a good horse to make a good ride@table :slight_smile:

Greets

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Bet on YOURSELF:)------Much more fun and if you do not think your good enough-then learn or play lower-level games or tournaments…Just my dumb opinion:).

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Well, this is a good post for reflection. I wouldn’t invest money in anyone except one player (I won’t say who). We can look for a horse, but why? We’re kind of amateurs, and the same kind of amateurs are playing with us. Damn it, just let’s enjoy this game.:raised_hands:

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Actually, I’m interested about this thing. So if player wants to make some money for himself he should never sell all 100% of his buy-in and still he has to pay some of his own money to enter a tournament. Then I don’t understand what is the scam in it? if he reenteres horse then has a better profit because he has to pay less? But still he is paying a buy in and looses this money. So how scam is can be done here?We need more explanaation about this staking thing)))

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If a horse sells 100% of his first bullet (and plays only one bullet) then no, he does not have to use his own money for the buy-in. But he also doesn’t make any money either.

I never said there is a scam. I only said “when money is involved scammers can’t be ruled out.”.
What I meant was, if the funds involved in staking are not handled by a trusted third party, then there is always a chance to be scammed.

I think you didn’t understand the concept of dilution. There are two ways for a horse to offer stakes of himself.

  1. He may offer a stake only for the first bullet. If he loses that one and wins with the second bullet the backers get nothing.

  2. The horse offers a stake for all his bullets. This is where the dilution comes along.
    Let’s simplify this further:
    A horse wants to play a $10 tournament and sells 50%. The backer gets access for all bullets.

a) the horse wins $20 dollars with first bullet. He gets $10 backer gets $10. Horse profits $10.

b) First bullet is a miss and horse plays another bullet, and he wins $20.

What is the result? Horse gets $15 and backer gets $5. BUT, don’t forget that the horse had to buy the second bullet himself. So in this situation horse’s profit is only $15 - $10 (the second bullet buy-in) = $5.

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