The fairness debate

Suggestions & Feedback
1254

What I find funny is RNG only certifies ( my guess ) that the random # generators Replay uses are on the up & up. Mis-ise of a RNG, can lead to un-randomness even if its 100% legit.

Even live, there is a huge difference if the table has a shuffler built in. In that case 2 decks are used @ all times… so the anomolies described here would be every other hand not every hand. As opposed to replicating live deals with only 1 deck and the dealer shuffle’n… Live there is also the possibility of allowing cut of deck, which usually is never replicated online.

Lets look @ 2 other senarios ( online )
1: as a deck is built, cards are pulled 1 by 1 ( randomly ), till a new deck is built…
2: cards are “shuffled”, and deck is built as cards are folded… including deck last…

How the code treats those 2 situations is very different. How “randomness” is applied is also very different, but thats not saying its fix’d.

You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to do the following experiment… take a brand new deck, replicate a “perfect” shuffle, then review the deck… keep doing this, and in the range of 13-17 times, and the deck almost shuffles itself back to where you started from… a brand new deck… so wouldn’t it make a huge difference if the code @ Replay, shuffled 14 times each time, instead of say 7 ??? Things that make ha go hmmmmmmm.

1255

If they wanted to put this to rest, they would provide access to downloadable hand histories so we could do the actual analysis.

Arguing for or against statistical skewing without statistical data is rather pointless.

NOT providing easy access to the data makes it look like they have something to hide, whether they actually do or not.

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1256

My argument was for what kind of statistical analysis would be required, not what I would expect the results to be.

Does any poker site allow for public release of hand histories? At the very least they would need to be deidentified because, even though it is play money, publicly releasing hand results would be a huge violation of poker protocol, especially without having notified all players beforehand that their hands would be publicly available. If someone wants to make the argument (which is completely valid IMO) that the site is a business, then the hand histories are pretty sacred. Even in many professional tournaments the hands cannot be viewed until the final table because players do not want their play to be publicly available. Especially in high stakes games where the same 2-3 players or 9-10 players are always playing, it would be very easy to identify players. Not providing access to hand histories seems pretty standard to me, not really disingenuous.

Maybe people think it is ok to reveal hand histories because nobody is making a living or losing their house (hopefully) based on Replay results, but if that’s the argument, shouldn’t we all just be having fun playing poker and not worrying about if the site is rigged since nobody is actually going broke.

Or do you mean that they should release your own hand histories in a downloadable form? That would make a lot of sense and be interesting. The current replays are annoying to load, limited to 200 hands, and not formatted in way to allow for any analysis.

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1257

Yeah, I mean your own hands, like the most popular sites already do.

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1258

Joe - I just recently became aware of the analytical software that is out there and it has been a game-changer for me. I like this site for recreational purposes but it simply isn’t a viable training site for anything beyond the very basics without the ability to crunch the data in a meaningful way. I would love it if RP could integrate an analytics package for people who wanted to do some more serious training/learning or at least make the hands exportable to a 3rd party program. Might be a good revenue source if they did it in-house but put it behind a paywall for those who wanted it?

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1259

If they just added the ability to get your hand history, as CSVs, XML, or whatever, we would be able to use such tools.

Pokertracker has an affiliate program. They could add a simple affiliate link and see an additional income stream.

It would also mean they don’t have to spend dev resources on a new ranking scheme… PokerTracker has this built in, and it’s a robust, customizable solution that anyone with the software could use to evaluate theirselves or their opponents.

Adding a hand histories export function could end the “rigged” debate. Well, mostly end it anyway.

It would make the site more useful to those looking to up their game, which would help long term retention rates.

There’s no good reason not to implement this feature.

2 Likes
1260

SunPowerGuru,

I want to come here, not a zillion redirects, nor be forced to go to 3rd party sites.

1261

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1262

What a great avatar, logo, picture you have.

1263

Just a few thoughts after my Post:

If you are going to have a Community Forum than it should be open, not only to positive comments but also negative comments without being personally attacked.

If you are going to have Players Rep’s than that is what they should be ………… a Players Rep.

Recently I posted that RePlay should take a look at their programing. Never did I say the programing was “rigged’ or “unfair”. Those were words inserted by other players comments.

In my post I stated I had played on a different site and their programmed seemed to be closer to live poker. Because of Replay programming there was times I” FELT” like I had been set up. I am not alone in that feeling because the phrase the players use for this very same thing is called being “Replayed” . I did not make up that phrase.

I understand that “if” a program is flawed towards one player …than the same flaw is against all Players. But I also understand that any Computer Program can be improved…. if a company wants to keep moving forward and improving their site.

After my Post comments became personal. Without addressing the text of the Post, other players began to insert comments that I never said, like “rigged” “biased” and insinuated I was a “liar”. At some point I would think the “Player Rep” would have stepped in to be a “Players Rep”.

I enjoy Replay’s format. The Site format is far superior to the other site……… but in my opinion the programing of the “game” on the other site…… was better than Replay…… Just my opinion. I’m amazed how personal and nasty other players responded to my opinion.

Just like any other site you have some Class people like Sassy_Sarah and Whittaker. Then there’s other people, let’s just call them less then Class. I don’t need to name names. Anyone that reads the string of replies can figure out who they are.

Now RePlay can take these comments and the other comments that replied to my Post and try to improve the programming or not. Maybe they feel this is the best programming they can do. There was some great suggestions and ideas that came after the name calling was finished.

Or at the very least, maybe they can talk to their Plays Rep’s and discuss how to be a true Player’s Rep.

Once again just my opinion. So now that I have left these final thoughts……Let the name calling begin again ! 

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1264

I honestly think replay should have 2 pairs, 3 of a kind and especially straights ranked as a higher hand than a flush being AS I’M SEEING ABOUT 60-70% of the hands boarding 3 or more suited cards! And I play EVERYDAY so I see it and us regulars are so used to it there’s actually flush jokes. Sorry it’s a fact. LOL sorry I’m laughing but I just thought about the other day I had SIX straight hands that ALL my 4 hole cards were unsuited, hey it happens now n then but then I started paying attention to the board…and? It rolled off 8 straight hands that had 2 of 3 in flop same suit. Then? after a lapse of a couple of hands 13 YES 13 STRAIGHT HANDS had 3 or more suited cards on completed board! I know u guys have said u run tests but c’mon how bout doing1 where LIVE people are playing…even announce it that would be great and the regular players would more than welcome it because WE KNOW! What the results will be. every1 knows the runner runner runner diamonds comin. Listen I love this site but honestly IT’S BAD! It’s bad to the point that u have good players changing their thinking process,game & second guessing themselves and folding good hands, if the flop brings 2 suited cards and I got 2 pair or an open ended straight? If the guy with 2 suited waiting for the last 1 has played more than 100 hands on replay KNOWS he has a HUGE advantage so I’m folding because I KNOW that 3rd suits comin’, almost ALWAYS does about 75-80% of the time and i got SLIM chance hoping for that 9 or A to fall & hit my open ender or that card to hit my boat! Just if u can check it out cuz I’ve NEVER seen ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE 2 the flush runs like replays on ANY other site. Thx guys 4 lettin me bend your ear.

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1265

You must be kidding

1266

He is not kidding. I have noticed the same thing. There are an extraordinary amount of same suited flops here. I fully expect to be hounded and labeled a whiner for agreeing with this post but there it is. Replay is a free poker site so I dont expect it to be realistic as no computer program is truly random. This site has entertainment value but in no way resembles true card fall in my opinion.

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1267

I also agree , this is a fun site with some nice people and great staff but…its more of a card entertainment site than a poker site.

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1268

Some say its the bad players that question the card distribution but many good players are seeing the patterns.
Lots of players are chasing flushes now because they hit so often.

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1269

Actually WEC I’m not kidding.This issue is not 1 that’s cheating anyone because at some point everyone will benefit & hit a runner runner on turn&river.Replay is a great site I’m just pointing out a glitch that’s happening more often than it should be.And it happens so often that it’s affecting peoples play.And playing everyday? Everyday there is comments about it. MANY MANY other people know it’s true. If theres 2 suited on flop any1 who plays REGULARLY EXPECTS that the turn/river WILL be 3rd. I know odds should 50% another suit falls but it’s more like over 80% and players w 2pr,trips,or open ended draws will not risk it. At 50% chance a suit will fall your already an underdog but bump that over 80%? Your out! So I don’t know WEC if u either don’t play much,u don’t pay attention or you just think you’re better than any1, know everything & felt like brown nosing replay! You’re either blind or 1 of the above! I didn’t post this crying or whining just wanted 2c if replay was aware it’s happening, and like I said it’s not a crisis because it’s not favoring any1 just wanted 2 bring it 2 Replay’s attention so don’t put your holier than thou sarcasm out there! GO HUG YOUR DOG!

1270

In Texas hold’em there is a 37% chance of having 3 suited cards by the river, a 42% chance that the board pairs, and a 20% chance of 3 consecutive cards (straight draw).

When you combine those probabilities, it means that there can be a straight, a flush, or a full house on most boards. In free chip poker, where people call too much, there will be a lot of straights, flushes, and full houses.

And that isn’t even counting boards with 3 of the same card (e.g., 888) or with straight draws with nonconsecutive cards (e.g., 79J)

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1271

“When you combine those probabilities, it means that there can be a straight, a flush, or a full house on most boards.”

Sure, there can be.
But you don’t fold 2pr or trips after the flop very often, expecting “a straight, a flush, or a full house on most boards”, do you?

Besides, the premise of this thread is not random Texas Holdem odds, it is Replay Texas Holdem odds.
Did you really think the players above don’t understand poker percentages?
Please don’t derail the thread if you can’t add anything on topic.

Edit: Well, the thread did have a premise. Now it’s title has been obscured and the thread has been merged into a 1300 hundred post thread. So it goes.

1272

Ok, I am very short time here but I am playing poker lot of years. What I am see in this few days is one unreal number of flushes. I don’t know what Rnd the script uses but from my point of view something is wrong. BTW it seems that this bug in the program is being used by players who are longer on this portal because they are paid fairly and quite large, expecting to turn to Flush. The game itself loses interest because it is about to win an opponent, not a program. If one can not trust his cards then… :disappointed:

1273

I’ll just copy and paste from my other post and wait for this to get merged with the fairness debate. The numbers I am quoting do not show anything in particular about Replay Poker, but they say a lot about the nature of poker and people’s expectations.

"In Texas hold’em there is a 37% chance of having 3 suited cards by the river, a 42% chance that the board pairs, and a 20% chance of 3 consecutive cards (straight draw).

When you combine those probabilities, it means that there can be a straight, a flush, or a full house on most boards. In free chip poker, where people call too much, there will be a lot of straights, flushes, and full houses.

And that isn’t even counting boards with 3 of the same card (e.g., 888) or with straight draws with nonconsecutive cards (e.g., 79J)"

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