The fairness debate

Suggestions & Feedback
1052

The 7 5 off was the only caller. I would like to see the stats for this site on the following:

  1. All hands where someone went all-in pre-flop and had at least one caller
  2. Of those hands, how many were won on the river
  3. Of those won on the river, how many were runner runner wins
    I will bet it is way over the the 44% you say (100% - the 56% you stated)
  4. While you are at it, of all the runner runner wins, what is the breakdown of 2 pr., trips, straights and flushes?

By the way, the example I gave was AFTER the flop, so why do you keep using pre-flop numbers?

1053

I enjoy writing so when an inspired moment coincides with a convenient place to vent, my 2 cents worth is going in. While my investment of time, energy, and thought fell far short of ā€œincredibleā€, Iā€™ll accept that as a compliment! Thank you! (Yes, gimme fiddy, Iā€™m addressing you right now and donā€™t judge me! Thatā€™s Santaā€™s job this time of year! lol) Seriously, tossing an opinion out in a forum like this is essentially an invitation to be judged by anyone who spends the time it takes to read what you wrote. Thatā€™s what itā€™s all about after all. I canā€™t imagine what these guys expect when they broadcast their empassioned perspective of what it feels like to continually get the crap kicked out of you on the tables. They always get so butt-hurt when people respond by swiftly kicking the crap out of them in writing too! Sympathy comes at a very steep price. I guess they just donā€™t see the contrast between ā€œPaying the priceā€ and ā€œPlaying for freeā€!

My rant isnā€™t a cheap shot at the fairness on the tables here at Replay. Iā€™ve shared my opinion here before on that subject and drew the attention of a rather high ranking member of the staff who offered some kind words of appreciation in response to my kind words of appreciation! The intentions and the philosophy at Replay are golden. I know this. My rant is a tangent that, in all honesty, doesnā€™t belong in a thread entitled ā€œThe Fairness Debateā€. I think my negative observations are something transparent from the perspective of the majority of the players. I just happen to sit right in the center of the narrow band where these aspects are not only apparent, they are magnified! Iā€™m committed to developing a very particular style of play and there is no doubt that by staying the path I am subjecting myself to the effects that I described. I donā€™t want to redirect my point on yet another tangent, so Iā€™ll just leave it at that.

So GimmyFiddy, Iā€™ll accept the blame for not clearly getting my point across. I appreciate criticism from anyone who actually demonstrates their ability to read, think, react, and respond in like form. I imagine I could justify some of your words as insults but, on the whole, your response is entertaining. (Plus, GimmyFiddy is a clever name.) Beyond all that superficial stuff, Iā€™ve been married for a little over 21 years! Insults likes those arenā€™t even detected as a threat! Thatā€™s like throwing snowballs at the Starship Enterprise compared to the artillery thatā€™s been fired out my wifeā€™s big fat mouth! (Iā€™m feeling pretty confident that she hasnā€™t made the association with ranchcracker!) Naturally, I canā€™t help but ā€œsympathizeā€ with your position. Single people think that Navy Seals stuff is a joke. Iā€™ve been waiting for someone to develop an escape button that will immediately eject an entire monitor. Like ā€œBOOM!ā€, gone bee-otch! I know you what Iā€™m talking about regarding ā€œpaying the price!ā€

How ironic is this? Iā€™m copying and pasting below, something I wrote in this very thread. Itā€™s dated April 2015 and sounds a little familiar:

ranchcracker Apr '15

Briefly: No single person can possibly play enough poker over the course of a month or two to compile enough information, (enough results for specific situations), to determine the fairness of the deal. (At least by modern standards.) Not even close. Do you feel like youā€™re getting the short end of the stick? You are. Keep at it and things will go your way sooner or later. Hereā€™s a couple of sayings to ponder in the mean-time:

ā€œNo matter how bad things get, they can always get worse!ā€

In the immortal words of Wesley Snipes to Woody Harrelson in the movie White Men Canā€™t Jump: ā€œThe sun even shines on a dogā€™s ass on some days.ā€

Keep your chin up and try a little harder. You may suck at playing poker but if you play a little every day, you will always suck a little bit less tomorrow!

I feel like such a pusssy!

1054

Anyone who would tell you that the cards arenā€™t manipulated with Replay Poker either is very naĆÆve, works for the Site, or hasnā€™t played a significant number of hands to be able to make this observation.

Replay continues to assure us of the ā€œrandomnessā€ of play but having played thousands of hands it is easy to see that it isnā€™t random.
One example is that the cards that are folded preflop influence the subsequent flop, turn, and river.

Have you ever questioned the frequency of the 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 coming up in your hand or on the table?

I have complained many times about this issue, and Replayā€™s response has been to manipulate my cards and my hands to the extent that I am having difficulty competing with the other players.

We know that Replay can control playā€“they can pretty much do what they want with their programming. We are told that the cards are shuffled independently of Replay. What we arenā€™t told is the extent to which they control play within their own programming.

This site will ultimately fail because of the deceptive way they control the play. Why they feel compelled to operate in this fashion is beyond me. It would seem that if they allowed for totally random play that they would have much to gain and nothing to lose.
I am not factoring in the profit motive. Another gentleman indicated that perhaps this was one of the reasons for the manipulation of play.

1055

1056

Right, Mr. employee here says that the whole siteā€™s odds should compare to one player per week. DUH

/

1057

The chances are less here because there are so many chances and there are people that donā€™t know how to play and there are people that work here that tell you are wrong andā€¦ HELLLO? ITā€™S A ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  COMPUTER PROGRAM AND THEY CAN SEE THE CARDS!!! UHHHHHH!!!

1058

Lets make this simple ā€¦ shall we ā€¦

Have someone pay IBM to use ā€œWatsonā€, or pay anyone for supercomputer timeā€¦ and audit Replay Poker for ā€¦ manipulating the freakā€™n cards ā€¦ then publish the proofā€¦

To all those who say Replay Poker cheatsā€¦ Put up ā€¦ or Shut up

( I for one, have played many poker sites, and can say Replay ā€œplaysā€ just as honest as Live. )

1059

I learned along time ago Sassy that there is no amount of facts that will change a personā€™s strongly held opinions.

1060

yes this site is most definitly riggedā€¦i mean you have to log in to create a free account then they have the nerve give you free starting chipsā€¦then if if you lose those guess what? they get real nasty and GIVE U MOREā€¦now after all that crap they wait until the next day and GIVE YOU MORE free CHIPSā€¦iā€™ve had my account here for almost 8 months and i have a little over 1 million chipsā€¦but get thisā€¦replay has not asked me for a dimeā€¦definitly rigged no other explnatoinā€¦why else would it be free.

1061

Hereā€™s a good one, I am playing in a multi and a moderator (Scratch, Sniff? Some name like that.) is playing and wishes one player good luck. Immediately everyone is like what about us. He begrudgingly apologizes and wishes everyone else good luck. I then say ā€œItā€™s who ya know and who ya blow here at replay pokerā€ Lol. admit it, it is funny. He then says that I am rude and crude and should stop saying that ā€œjunkā€. Guess itā€™s a one way street here as the moderators say all the time mute people that bother you. ANYWAY, a few hands later me, him, and his butt buddy he wished GL to all bust all in to another guys amazing suck out. Itā€™s the same comment over and over, folks, this program is the same rigged one used by Full Tilt and other sites. Any time you go all in it will prefer to have an amazing suck out finish to either make the losers so mad he buys chips or the winner so happy he does the same. And, once again, any time you make comments like this or show up a ā€œmoderatorā€ you will lose every all in every time. Can you say MOTHERBOARD? donā€™t expect this comment to be here very log either. LOL!

1062

Cleaver,

Your one-liner isnā€™t funny. It is silly, base, and shows no wit. You also presume to read the minds of six other players. Thatā€™s a stretch. Iā€™m sorry you donā€™t know how to enjoy a web site designed so you can enjoy it. I also hope ā€œtheyā€ donā€™t take your bitter words down; but I will understand if they do.

Scratch

1063

Hard to argue with this logic. Convince people the site is rigged and make them mad enough, and they will buy chips! What a ninja-like marketing strategy, thanks for exposing them!

1064

Waa waa waa boo hooo. Some ā€œmoderatorā€ you are. Looks like you only ā€œmoderateā€ your own well being.

1065

If a few ppl play often against a moderator, then simple table repor can illicit such a comment from said modā€¦ yet if you think it effects the cards, think againā€¦

1066

Does this make sense to anyone?

I donā€™t think the deal is completely random but I definitely donā€™t think the deal is tilted towards anyone in particular, regardless of which players are actually buying chips and which players are just free-loaders like me. I donā€™t buy chips and I donā€™t plan to. I donā€™t keep track but Iā€™ve won at least 5 or 6 tournaments this year, including once this week. Iā€™ve reached the point where I finish in the money a fair amount of time and Iā€™m pretty sure I could improve that number if I played a more aggressive game.

I think that the software that deals the game is designed to make things more exciting by ā€œreactingā€ to specific activity. So, imagine that you are controlling the deal and your job is to inject drama into game. Youā€™ve been instructed to make something exciting happen as soon as possible and make sure itā€™s significant enough that everyone will notice. Which player or players are most likely to get the starring roles in your drama production? If you want something dramatic to happen right now youā€™re naturally going to involve the most active players. So player 1 checks; player 2 checks; player 3 checks; player 4 goes ALL-IN; players 5, 6, and 7 fold; player 8 CALLS, 9 folds, 1 folds, 2 CALLS, and 3 folds. Player 4 got your attention 1st so heā€™s your star, players 8 and 2 get supporting roles. THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM EXISTS. The activity that triggers the software to react and go into hyper-drama mode is the ALL-IN bet made by the jackass bingo player. The software doesnā€™t recognize the fact that his antics are ruining the game for the 8 other players. It simply recognizes the trigger and sets up the drama, but far too often the software seems to be assigning the role of the predetermined winner to the jackass. Players 8 and 2 are left to play the parts of 2 hapless suckers. They get dealt very solid hands that arenā€™t quite enough to win.

Iā€™m sure the software consists of a very complex system of logic compared to my stupid analogy but my point is that the programming is characterized by a tendency to favor the players who are carelessly over-betting with cards they should be folding. I seriously doubt this was intended but, for whatever reason, itā€™s happening. And itā€™s happening far more frequently than the laws of probability allow for with a random deal. The fact that itā€™s happening explains many of the frustrated rants that have been posted by rational minded decent poker players. Going all-in on every hand isnā€™t supposed to be a successful strategy because youā€™re not going to have strong cards every hand but the players calling you usually are which means youā€™re probably going to lose. 2 nights ago I watched a player walk through 6 consecutive hands accumulating a 120K stack before getting beamed-up and moved to another table! 3 of the players he knocked out managed to keep their cool and show some class with a gesture of good sportsmanship by offering ā€œnh ggā€ in the chat box. His response: ā€œlol ggā€! He eventually did get knocked out at the final table in either 4th or 6th place, I canā€™t remember.

Ok, enough said. Either there is a glitch or Iā€™ve lost my mind. Youā€™ve heard my rant and it should be obvious that itā€™s a very frustrating situation to deal with from where I sit. On the bright side, this kind of BS doesnā€™t go on in every MTT and when it does, Iā€™ve found that itā€™s usually possible to weather the storm and Iā€™m not one of the really good players here. Iā€™m no slouch and Iā€™ve enjoyed some success but I couldnā€™t begin to explain how some of these guys sustain the rankings theyā€™ve acheived. Iā€™ve gotten under 10,000 a couple of times following a good streak of finishes but it donā€™t take much to suddenly find yourself sitting at 300,000 something waiting for some free chips or the next free roll MTT to start. Replay isnā€™t perfect but it beats the crap out of anything else Iā€™ve found.

THESE ARE FACTS, IF YOU DONā€™T BELIEVE IT, ITā€™S TIME TO START:

1.) REPLAY IS NOT RIGGED!
(Get your calculator and multiply the number of players logged on right now by the massive dollar amount required to finance enough chips to get you through another week of demonstrating how to NOT win. Whatever number you see is probably a lot more than the actual weekly chip revenue but itā€™s still close enough. Subtract your guess at what it costs to keep this sight running smooth and pay the staff. Whatever is left is what you are claiming is the motive for the bad guys to follow you and me and countless other donks around from tournament to tournament so they can watch with evil delight as they make us lose. And they still had enough left over to get Donald Trump in the White House. That is truely amazing!)

2.) DONALD TRUMP IS PRESIDENT ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE OAKLAND RAIDERS ARE IN 1ST PLACE IN THE AFC WEST.
(God help us. And yes I voted and no I didnā€™t vote for Trump! And HELL NO Iā€™m not a Raiderā€™s fan! I live in Denver!)

3.) I WILL NEVER BUY CHIPS TO PLAY FREE POKER
(To do that would be the equivalent of accepting personal failure for me. I appreciate the website and will pay an exorbitant amount for a T-Shirt or something if my financial support is needed.)

4.) REPLAY POKER IS AWESOME!
(Not perfect but they obviously care about the important stuff and donā€™t make us suffer through repetitive advertisements.)

5.) SANTA CLAUS IS NOT REAL
(Yes, that means Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer is not real either. Iā€™m sorry you had to find out this way but at least you know the truth now and can get on with your life. HO! HO! HO!)

6.) MERRY CHRISTMAS/HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
(Raider fans included, Cheifs fans are not!)

1 Like
1067

I think software are stuck .
Every few hands we have irritating pocket pair on flop.
This NOT RandumNG.

1068

I was leading for about an hour in a 50k buy in tourney with 21k chips last 35 minutes I donā€™t get a single callable game every hand was from 23 to 29 how is that xxxx possible? I came in 6th which obviously I dint think as nothing less than 2nd was acceptable however sick cards I getā€¦every other player was either raising and actually had premium handsā€¦its not possible in any dealing set that for 35 minutes I donā€™t get a playable hand over 78 ā€¦its impossible no ace no king no 10 no queen nothingā€¦its impossibleā€¦and this is not the first time its happned this has happened 5 times in a heads up situationā€¦its impossible and really sickā€¦one knows with these idiotic cards being dealt you cannot win its not possibleā€¦someone can explain this?

1069

good cards early, bad cards late ??? it does happen.

1070

jazz - unfortunately it is not only possible but not that uncommon, especially in short format events like we have here. It is a function of the number of hands in the tournament being very limited by virtue of quickly rising blind levels. If you go through a period of being card-dead at the wrong time, or for too long a time, you are pretty well sunk here, or anywhere. Because these formats are so short though, these periods donā€™t even have to be very long for them to take you down and out. It happens quite a bit but we tend to notice only when its happening to us :slight_smile:

Even in longer format tournaments it happens. You can watch any number of WPT or WSOP events where someone has made it all the way to a televised table and then sits there looking miserable as unplayable hand after unplayable hand is dealt to him/her. In cash games, I have seen Phil Hellmuth actually get blinded out during a 100K buy-in game as he didnā€™t even get cards worth defending his BB over. In that instance his run of being card dead would probably have spanned multiple tournaments here in terms of total hands.

On the positive side, it also takes a very small number of premium hands strung together for a player to rocket up the leaderboard in the MTTs here for the very same reason, the shortness of the game. When we go on a heater, it never seems like it lasts long enough. When we are card-dead, every hand feels like 1 too long. I went for a week here not holding a single pocket pair of Aā€™s Kā€™s or Qā€™s. The odds against that were extraordinary, yet certainly still possible. The next week things went back to ā€œnormalā€.

Best advice is to not let it affect your play going forward. That is when you get yourself in really big trouble. It happens to everyone and when it does, everyone will agree that it sucks. Thatā€™s part of the game too though. Look forward to the time when you are lower on the leaderboard and go on that epic heater and take the tournament down!

1071

This site is the same old ā– ā– ā– ā– . It gives you some chips and then takes them all away quickly in a " fantastic" all in donk finish. Yes, you will read on here about the number of hands played, random generators, blah, blah, blah, but the software is programmed to try to make you buy chips. There are ā€œmoderatorsā€ who get mad if you talk back to them, site junkies like the guru and the sassy one who have both got mad at me when I didnā€™t milk a players chips that had gone offline. If you comment and get jumped immediately by these people, THATā€™S A CLUE!. That they are trying to talk everyone into their game. It is when you go ALL IN on software like this that the opposing player who has spent more time, money, or lip service than you will suck out every time. And if you call these people out like I do? You donā€™t stand chance. The funny part is, itā€™s play chips and I will never spend a dime on you shysters.