Unrelated but i was playing 2 tables, stakes 50/100, 4 player tables. I gave a player the Zzzzzzzzzzzz or asked them to play faster.
He responded: “sorry im mutitable etc.”
I responded: “yes me too. you dont need to play that slow tho”
i checked his profile immediately & he was only playing 1 table. Maybe he quit other table, but i think he was jus making excuses. we had friendly chat, he added me & ive never seen him play 2 tables, only ever 1.
point is i regularly play 2 tables faster & much more profitably that a large portion of players and the majority are only playing 1 table.
A very simple way to overcome slow play is to reduce the time allowed to make your move. I’m not sure how long it is at the moment but it feels like hours sometimes. I reckon 8 to 10 seconds is more than adequate. It doesnt have to be every table. Those annoying people that like to stretch it out can all play together & get through 15 games an hour if they like while the rest of us cxan play at a much more acceptable speed
There are players you run the clock every turn and sit on two tables at the same time and just kill the game…Whats worse is when he has the nuts calls instantly…So truly no plausable reason why he cant play at the average rate the rest of the table are playing…It’s very apparent that the player is running the clock every turn with intent.Moreover on his turn simply disappears from the table and comes back then disappears again…
Think this is very poor decorum…i did complain to support about this.
Doing this on two tables is very annoying…
I do feel we dont need to change the speed clock but simply penalise them based on what the management thinks would be the right kind of ‘punishment’'for these kind of players knowing that its done with ‘‘intent’’.
Also the point of saying -legit excuse shouldnt arise as if you cant cope with multiple tables,one shouldnt play them with due respect to other players on those tables…
i totally agree it kills the game…as many players dont play for hours sometimes…hypothetically,if one has to base a table with just one slow player hes probably being dealt 40% less hands than he should be actually being dealt…taking a time clock of an hour of play.
i actually leave the table when such a player sits at the table.
@jazzbythebay Thanks for posting. A lot of what you say adds credence to what i have been trying to emphasise and the entire point of this thread.
Slow Players that are significantly slower than the players at the table or the average player. Players that are obviously, deliberately & with intent running the clock every turn to be annoying aKa trolling. Ive had to explain this too many times to a few slow people in this post that dont seem to get it but as the poker saying goes: “If you can’t spot the slow sucker at the table, then your the slow sucker at this table!”
What i find most frustrating & annoying is when one of these player joins a table im doing very well on. If i have 3 or 4 times the buy in after felting a few players & winning a lot chips I dont want to leave just bc slow poke troll has turned up. As you said it totally kills the game.
Yes i have seen that strange disappear & reappear which restarts the clock again etc. Always thought it was probably a RP glitch but also was suspicious of the player messing with their connection in some way to deliberately “produce” this glitch. I know players do this kind of stuff in online gaming like FPS - first person shooters to gain an advantage aKa cheating.
Also in online gaming PC, players that experience bad lag that disrupts the game & play are penalised. As a penalty i think RP should warn them & after a warning ban them for a short period of day/s. Banning offence: 1st=1d, 2nd=3d, 3rd 7d. Also maybe add a BB big blind forced penalty chip for known offenders repeatedly playing slowly on a table much like the dead blind. I wont dive into how RP should systematically judge slow players - though its fairly easy for us intelligent humans that aren’t suckers.
Personally im not so keen on a penalty system but more interested in a “reward system” however any rules/guidelines that encourage slow players to play faster & discourage slow playing are welcome.
RE legit excusses:
I 100% agree with poker etiquette & being respectful of other players. If i experience bad lag on a table ill leave after a few hands bc it rarely gets any better: a) bc its annoying for me but b) bc its surely at least a little annoying for everyone else. Most people dont care about other people.
This problem I personally think is: Some players don’t care about other people; playing slowly wasting time etc. Some players are too slow to recognise the problem. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a solution.
This has been mentioned many times in this thread and elsewhere. Keep in mind the issue is not slow play but slow players.
Reducing the time limit - which is already short @ 20secs normal & 10secs turbo - simply increases the element of bingo & luck.
I’ve played on other poker sites & apps that had very short timers & I could tell were pushing/encouraging players to gamble more. Some apps even had gambling aspects like casinos that as we know the house always wins.
Good players often need more than 10sec when making a big decision.
Dogs,
What happens when there are (2) Chris Furgusons on every table ???
Will you ask for a clock every hand ??
How about Mike Matasaou, is this where you just mute the chat ?
I’m not saying the rules are good or bad, nor the format, or
how long the timer is…what I am saying is that using the rules
to your advantage isn’t against really punishable or wrong.
Dogs, 1 of your examples is, ppl that cant handle 4 tables, shouldn’t
play 4 tables out of respect for others. What goes un-noticed is that
if its 4 full tables of “fast players”, that player you think can’t handle
4 tables, does just fine and lags noone.
If I sit down at a NL table, and someone goes all in preflop 20 times
in a row… I might give them a little crap, I might not like it, it might
cheese me off a little too… but @ the end of the day, I sat down for
NL poker, I can’t object to someone who bets thier limit ( all in ).
Most people forget, even playing 1 table… ppl multitask and say
watch or listen to the TV too… so when they’re attn wanders, and
they don’t know its thier turn, because there is no audible tone…
they prolly only hear the “you have 3 sec left” tone and scramble
to place thier bet…
I have played on sites with TimeBanks… ppl there still used them
to thier maximum, so even that won’t solve what to me isn’t a
problem to begin with… a 10sec timer is a 10sec timer no different
than NL is NL… Once you involve the “thought police” for subjective
decisions, usually more ppl not less, will be unhappy.
Sassy
Sassy as far you naming the Pros who play for money should not be considered for discussion.
Playing with big money and play chips a complete different kettle of fish…
But you are right if anyone can handle 4 tables and play to the table speed why not,no issue with that.
I know a lot of players who multi task while playing and they play on par with the others…and absolutely spot on the rest of your points but what i think what Dog is saying is more relevant to what i posted unless im wrong…
My point in this entire topic is focussed on players who play slow ‘WITH INTENT’'…
Yes i agree that if you play to the time clock you are very much within the rules of the game here.but its a case of courtesy and fair decorum of the game to play on par with the other players…we all lag on 1/3 hands for any tourney we play out of say 30/50 hands which is fine and i dont think its even an issue to consider…
Just for the record as far as World Series Poker is considered below is thier time clock rule-
"Any participant intentionally stalling the progress of the game or unnecessarily calling the clock will incur a penalty in accordance"
based on these guidelines,we we follow most of the poker rules based on the Real money tournaments hence im just stating the above.
This is exactly what i posted earlier that the management needs to dish out the punishment they deem fit based on the time clock the players use based on intent and not based on because they can.
100% agree especially if its not making any valid or relevant points to the OP: Slow Players & Tables for Faster Players.
Your not wrong. I mostly agreed to everything in your OP.
This was the entire point or “topic” of this Thread: Slow Players & Tables for Faster Players. aKa trolls & players that are significantly slower than the pace of the table.
I agree with this but apparently some players dont, so the following rule had to be introduced to enforce players to be “courteous” & ""play fairly & uphold “poker etiquette”.
Thanks for providing some relevant & accurate info.
OK here is my two cents worth. Players who want to play fast want to lose fast. I play for fun and very rarely run out the clock just to do so. But here is a stark truth. New layout does not help. It is a data sucker, and the main reason lots of players are slow, is their connection issues. Why in the world would I have to tell the table TWICE!!! that I want to fold. Why in the world would I have to hit more than one button to leave??? Why do the check boxes make it look like the checkmark is being made by hand??? why do they waste table space with two full cards?? All of this new chit just slows play, uses up internet data and pisses off the rest of the table. Some folks like me have “unlimited” data, which is NOT unlimited.
While Im sure they dont “want” to lose fast they certainly seem willing to, and are often bingo players or players happy to throw their chips away fast & without thinking. Agreed.
Keep in mind the title of this thread: Slow Players & Tables for Faster Players. I dont want to play fast, I want to avoid unnecessarily slow games & slow players. This thread isnt about playing/finding fast games of poker or stipulating that the average player should be playing faster. Most of the time I find good paced 4 or 6 player games which are often IMO much better paced than the slower 9 player tables - for obvious reasons.
Totally agree with your thoughts on new tables. The new tables have a totally different feel & I feel they are much more difficult to play as fast as the previous or old tables. This is evident I think by looking at the table stats, hands played per (H/hr). The higher the stakes you go the faster the H/hr or the faster the “players” generally play at that stakes. I have noticed that the HIGH stakes games H/hr is currently rather poor/low in comparison to what the figures were before the new tables were implemented on all ring games. HIGH stakes was previously surprisingly & significantly faster than MED stakes on average. The reason I think is these new tables “play” or are “played” much slower.
Whilst the new tables seem to be problematic with regards to connectivity & lag it is not the reason players are playing slow & wasting time deliberately & with intent to disrupt play.
@timbershot the issue of connectivity & lag is a very important one RE the new tables. Please post your issues & concerns in a more relevant post & hopefully other players will comment, support & discuss this important issue.
the 64,000 dollar question is : whom decides, and how do they decide intent of the player’s actions ?
Sounds like the thought police to me, without direct proof of intent.
No matter if its 1 table or 6 tables, when players don’t know its thier turn, thier 1st warning is the dread’d “you have 3 sec to act” ding.
As you learn poker, you start making automatic decisions… therefore its logical that the lower the stakes, the longer on average the players take to act.
I have found the beta tables more laggy, and less functional, this directly effects the speed of players’s actions. While players adjust to the beta tables, play also is slower.
Before Im accused of beating a dead horse, Why a player seems to be playing slow, has not been fully explored here… nor has the ways someone must subjectively determine intent of players’s actions. Yes thread topic is Slow Players & Tables for Faster Players, so I am only addressing the 1st part “Slow players”.
Sassy
I will post a longer & more in depth boring post later, but for now… Slow Players has been an issue/problem in WSOP & many other multi-million dollar sports worldwide. The authorities, regulators, organisers have implemented rules to solve this issue/problem with penalties to reduce its unwanted outcome. Its not rocket science. The problem/issue is easily understood by most intelligent fans/professionals & solved with rules & penalties. ABC 123.
Its really very simple. Pick a sport like Tennis & an average intelligent fan could identify Slow Players. The slowest well known players in Tennis are actually some of the best. Great players in fact. These players take much, much, much longer than most other players (in between points). Do they waste time with intent to disrupt play? Probably not. Do they gain an unfair advantage by taking longer? No. Does that mean they are entitled to take as long as they like? I don’t think so, & even fans don’t think so, even the sport (authorities, regulators, organisers) don’t think so. RESULT: rules & penalties to reduce time wasted by Slow Players.
The understanding is simple. The need for rules isn’t rocket science.