Sit outs

Suggestions & Feedback
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Players who sign up to a tourney and don’t show up for the first 3 levels are automatically booted out.
Players who sit out for more than 50% of hands while in a tourney don’t get any tourney points.

However, those who do play past the 4th level are allowed to sit out of the game until they run out of chips (posting and folding). There is no time or level limit for them.
Some of these players (and it happens frequently) make it to final tables and to top paid places, and get prizes in SnG games and MTT tourneys, without even playing anymore, while others who play the entire time lose on the bubble or before.

I’ve seen bingo players go all in preflop constantly at the beginning of a tourney, get miracle hands and accumulate chips, and when their stack is big enough, they leave the game, and their sitting shadow wins them chips for 4th, 3rd, and even 2nd place, when others who fight hard to stay in the game till the end, lost just before them and get nothing, or get less than them.

I myself was in the lead a few times, and had to leave the game unexpectedly, and came back later to find an email saying I came in 2nd or 3rd place and won chips but no tourney points. I didn’t think it was fair for others then either.

Wouldn’t it be fair to everyone if those who sit out get booted out of the tourney after a certain time, or after few levels, just like those who don’t show up? If a player sits out of a tourney for more than 3 consecutive blind levels, shouldn’t they get the same treatment as the no-shows?
Or another way to deal with this could be not to award chips to those who sit out for more than 50% of the hands while in a tourney, not just tourney points. No matter what they rank in the end, they get 0 points, why not also get 0 chips?

We all need to leave a game for one reason or another (disconnected, bathroom, phone, door, pet, etc…), and it’s only fair for us to find our seat when we come back in an acceptable time frame. But for those of us who sit out for the rest of the tourney, it’s not fair to stay in the game and win at the expense of others.

@Shady spoke about this in another thread, and I know many others agree that it’s unfair, that’s why I am starting this thread, in the hope to hear back from RP with a fair solution that works for everyone, as they always do.

Thanks
Maya

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The bastards! Imagine the nerve of some people who think its fair to post blinds and antes and not even bother to defend the chips they put in the pot! In addition to disqualifying them, I say they should be tarred and feathered and then publicly flogged. I am outraged. Outraged and offended.

Yeah, what do they think this is, poker or something?

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Very funny as usual @Comicguy :slight_smile:

But I’m only talking about tourneys. The blinds and antes they’re posting are tourney chips, not their own.

Winning while not playing is not poker.

The rule is already there for tourney points, why not treat chips the same way?

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Sorry @Maya, I can’t take anything too seriously here. If we disqualified all behavior that “isn’t poker”, just how many people do you think would be left playing at all? :rofl: Of all the things that go on here, this just isn’t one that bothers me. As I understand it, its allowed in real tournaments as well. Just look at those chips as a gift to the table. They aren’t being defended and presumably the person who left them there had a stack that could do damage to the remaining players if he/she remained active. So its advantageous to the table to have a person sit out and post. At least this is how I see it.

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“We all need to leave a game for one reason or another (disconnected, bathroom, phone, door, pet, etc…), and it’s only fair for us to find our seat when we come back in an acceptable time frame. But for those of us who sit out for the rest of the tourney, it’s not fair to stay in the game and win at the expense of others.”

This is so true and I would be interested to hear the views of other tournament players on this subject.

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Simple, create a rule and modify the software so that no prizes are awarded to a player who was not seated and had not been seated for the previous 5 hands at the time they are eliminated from the tournament. That sounds fair to me.

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I’m not sure I agree with you on this one, Maya (this is a novelty isn’t it? LOL). At least not in the way you put it.
When I play a tourney, being an optimist I make sure I have at least one hour time at my disposal.
In very few cases, though, it happens that I have to leave before the end. If I come to a paid place by sitting out, this means I have regularly earned a sufficient quantity of chips to be among the winners. Why should I be deprived of the reward? Are the chips won at the final table until the end of the tourney worth more than the chips won before? Well, I don’t think so. And it doesn’t matter if I won them by playing bingo-style or not. Who can say?
I’d actually get the same result if I stayed at the table and folded every hand. What would be the advantage for the other players? My lovely presence? :slight_smile:
The case in which a player doesn’t show at all is obviously different. But I never play SnG, so I can’t judge if this is a regular occurrence or an isolated case.

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Here’s a quote from Replay’s help section (https://www.replaypoker.com/help/faqs):

"Once a player has paid their entry, they are entitled to play (or not play) every hand that their chips will buy them. A player who is sitting out actually puts his opponents at a significant advantage. The player who is sitting out is still forced to pay his blinds and antes, and is never able to build his stack. It’s best to think of a player who is sitting out as simply folding every hand. This is a completely legal tactic, as it is up to any individual player to decide his own best strategy. For this reason, almost every online poker room allows entrants to sit out indefinitely during a tournament."

If you play a few hands well, are lucky enough and win a few giant pots that allow you to “fold” every hand and still get into the money, what’s the problem? Many people (at least in real-money poker) use this as a strategy, sitting out the middle and/or last part of a tourney if they feel they’re getting what they came for. Their chips are “dead money” to be won by the other players, it’s almost like someone throws in extra blinds… There are even quite a few players on Replay who compulsively raise when the blinds are being paid by a sit-out.

Besides, what if I’m the chipleader and just fold every hand until I’m in the money (without sitting out), for example while playing another table or tourney? Then I’m apparently there without actually being there, just that my button isn’t grey. Kicking sit-outs would be like disqualifying a marathon runner who is way ahead of the field for running very slow to safe energy… just because the other runners have to run very fast to catch up with him…

…And it wouldn’t be enforcable in a fair way either as there are many reasons to sit out apart from strategy, and just like in “real” life, there are lots of ways to win without actually doing much, or anything. In my opinion it would be a lot less fair to demand and enforce (perceived) fairness, as subjective as it is :sunglasses:

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That’s not the point @Comicguy
The chips the person sitting out is contributing to the pot are not the problem. The problem is when the person sitting out wins a prize without even playing, while the others who are playing just lose for ranking behind him.

@miri123 that’s the thing. These things happen a lot more in SnG’s, and while I agree with you that if you made it to the final table and had to leave, still winning because you earned it is not a problem, my concern is not about sit outs who make it to the end and then leave, but those who leave early in the tourney and still get to the final table, regardless of whether they played bingo or not. I can’t say that I agree with you about the difference between this and a player not showing up at all. It’s the same thing. Why not leave the player who doesn’t show up at all in the game as well? If you show up a little bit then leave, it’s the same thing.

I will repeat a point I tried to make before: no tournament points are awarded for those who sit out 50% of the time. The cash prize should be the same. Why punish them by depriving them from points, but reward them with chips still? Either give them also the points, or deprive them of everything. It’s only fair.

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Not really. It would be like disqualifying the runner for quitting and leaving the marathon just for being ahead.

True, but only until he wins and takes a top prize away from someone else who’s still in the game. Then he would be putting them in a big disadvantage.

I’m sorry but this information is incorrect. There are other sites that disqualify sit outs after a certain number of hands and are very strict about it.

If that’s the case, then why kick out the no-shows at the 4th level? Why not also leave them and take their chips? Why is one acceptable and not the other?

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True… but WSOP Play has a different take…

They give a missed blind button when a player is absent, and 2 missed blind buttons results in removal from the table.

See # 73… "73. A participant’s chips may be picked up if they miss a blind and receive two (2) absent buttons. A participant should receive a missed blind
button the first time they miss a blind. An absent button will be given by the next dealer to any empty seat with a missed blind button. .

  • 5 -
    Caesars Entertainment WSOP Live-Action Rules 2018
    Absences may be extended if the supervisor is notified in advance and the situation warrants. Excessive absences may also cause a
    participant’s chips to be picked up from the table.

WSOP 2018 Live-Action Rules

Yes… we are not live action… and perhaps 2 missed blinds is a bit scant for our turbo games…a maybe 5?

I like this concept… Comments?

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Ok I started this lol … I have no problem with ANYONE who has to genuinely sit out for whatever reason, we all do that at some point.
My point is regarding someone who joins the sit and go and NEVER sits in at all. How is that fair ?
Why even bother to join in the first place?
Comic man might scoff at the fact its just a few chips but I like many have NEVER purchased a chip and kind of pride myself on the fact what I have got in chips I have earned ! sometimes the hard way. Other sites I know for a fact boot anyone who is sat out for more than 3 blinds. Isn’t that a fair way of dealing with it? Particularly when there are genuine players wanting a decent, fair game and not there to suck out on others by sitting out.

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Hi Everyone,

First off, I do not foresee Replay dramatically changing the way we handle Sit Out in the near future but we are always grateful for player feedback and would act if we could see a real need.

We look at this type of thing with several things in mind

  1. Is it unfair on other players?

As mentioned here, I think everyone agrees players that sit out are not going to accumulate tournament chips, but the issue is they may cruise into prize slots by virtue of their stack size lasting for several orbits.

It is not a nice experience to be at a full table of players but have just 3 active, trying to play short handed when you are not expecting it.

  1. Is it disruptive to games?

It can spoil a tournament in the early stages and that is why many online sites (and live venues) remove no shows at a certain stage.

No Shows fold instantly, never win any chips and do not have any affect on the game itself.

Players sitting out with big stacks in the later stages are changing the dynamics of the prize places. However, if they were present and simply in fold-everything mode, or worse still stalling every hand to eat up valuable time on the tournament clock, would that make their chips more attainable?

  1. Notwithstanding, 1 & 2, Is it something which could be improved by different rules?

Everyone gets disconnected or distracted from time to time. Are the edge cases where someone loses connection in a major tournament for 10 minutes and gets disqualified for missing X consecutive hands (or whatever penalty we impose) going to balance the numerous times when a few players luckbox 2nd or 3rd in a 6 max sng?

I don’t believe many players deliberately win a big stack and then elect to sit out. It simply is not a profitable or enjoyable strategy, is it?
Nearly all sit outs which win chips in SnG are due to other players being knocked out before the No Show kicks in. Nearly all Sit Outs in MTT are unintentional, I am sure.

Not entirely the same because a big stack who has played the majority of the tournament will probably still achieve 50% of hands

I have to (tend to) agree with this

I would be interested for examples of poker sites (live or online) who disqualify players specifically in tournaments for absence, but not from the beginning of the event.
I think Live play for cash is a different ball game because the chips which are picked up are returned to the owner and some casinos I played in have rules which take into account the number of players absent. I.E, don’t expect to get two orbits if you leave a game where 2 or 3 are already sitting out and the game is threatening to break completely.

Don’t forget Bust the Staff !!!

Rob

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On the site I (and some other members here) used to play the rule there was, no matter if it was a ring table or a tourney table, you were allowed to sit out for 10 hands, if you were not back by the 11th hand, the system kicked you off the table.This system was greatly appreciated by all the players.

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Thank you Rob for a fair and comprehensive reply as usual.

To answer your question about an example of an online poker site that disqualifies sit outs at any time of the event, Zynga is the perfect example. It only offers SnG’s with 9 seats, and both no-shows and long sit-outs are disqualified and almost never make it to the top 3 paid places (unless of course the sit-out happens when there are only 3 players left).

You’re probably right about it not happening frequently enough to change the rules, but you’re also right about it not being a nice experience for active players who end up trying to last long enough until the sit-out is knocked out, in order to win, and surely even more annoying when an active player bubbles and the sit-out gets the prize.

But I understand your point and thank you again for explaining.

Regards
Maya

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Intentions sometimes get interrupted… tended my Mum for 7 years… missed MTTS when registered b/c something came up with her… the ole “LIFE HAPPENS” thing!!LOL

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I did explain that sometimes things take you away from the table Micki, not disputing that at all.
I’m talking about the people that join with the sole intention of not playing one hand.

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I totally agree with you on this topic Maya , I play at Midwest casino strip in Tunica MS , at Horseshoe and Hollywood on almost every weekend , and I promise all , you don’t see any sit out players at all , never to be exact . ( only at emergencies situations like bathroom or very important phone calls ) and they don’t last more than 5 mins give or take . I even play at WSOP site since I am a membership with total rewards which deals in partnership at live events and tournament events at Horseshoe casinos world wide , even there @ online site of WSOP you do’t see any sit outs ,
and the blinds go higher faster than here at the tournaments . and they have two options , novice and advanced , the novice is normal time line for beginners to play their hands within 30 sec limit , the advanced are turbo you got 10 sec to make up your mind during play. and I think that is why you don’t see sleepers or sit outs there .

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and there is this thing I see during the rebuy tournaments ,
before the 1st break is on ? and the least chip holder ( less than 1500 chips ) is dealing and win ? they instantly add 3500 chips before they receive the winning pot , so for example you had 2000 chips and you bet 500 and you get called, then you bet another all in and the clock is for the break for the add on and the rest oponents fold ? you instantly add on 3500 chips instead of 2000 this trick gives them boosted chip stack .
here is an example to what i mean :
Dealer: ** Hand [ 410449188 ] started **
Dealer: JDEEUU57 mucks
Dealer: JDEEUU57 wins 405 chips
Dealer: ** Hand [ 410449276 ] started **
Dealer: Dealt to board [ Tc 5h Ts ]
Dealer: JDEEUU57 added 3500 chips.
Dealer: JDEEUU57 mucks
Dealer: JDEEUU57 wins 780 chips

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It would seem I stirred up a hornets nest starting this topic Maya ! :smiley: