UTG (new to table sits with 5M, no history) auto post 100k, Hero (16M) HJ with Th8h raise to 450k, CO main V (bbkids 13.8M) calls, BTN (no history) calls, both blinds fold UTG calls.
Flop (1.9M) Jh7c4c x, x, bbkids 975k, f, c, c
Turn (4.8M) Ks x, x, bbkids 2.1M, f, Hero? bbkids has 10.5M back with 6.9M in the pot after he bets, we cover.
If anyone doesn’t know bbkids, he’s a hyper agro player who manufactures a lot of wins and chips by pushing edges and applying max pressure on opponents. When I say hyper, he makes me look like a TAG.
I think either one is OK You checked the flop, hard to sell a J, so you would be repping a K. He did call your open PF, and if he has a J or K or set or club draw, you’re dead to 4 outs, 3 if he has the flush draw. You’re behind a lot of his bluffs. How often will he fold to a shove there?
Interesting feedback. bbkids is fairly familiar with me to the point I think we have a he knows that I know he knows I know dynamic that creates some levelling wars. I think you’re right that he’s strongly discounting J’s because I’m not likely checking any of my J’s in a 4 way pot with a flush draw on board. I can have all the sets and all the AK’s as well as AA though and he may discount flush draws because I x the flop. bb can have so much here, and by that I mean he can have tons of draws, even though I block some. I don’t really block any value so he can have KJ but only suited so that’s 2 combos for top two pair and he can have sets of 7’s and 4’s another 6 combos but JJ and KK he’s 3! pre with so he can not have those. He can have a lot flush draws and str8 draws too. I think he can only have 8 combos for value. I like your thinking in this spot and going over the value combos I think we really only need him to have 8 or so bluffs that he’s folding to make a shove profitable. He is not getting the right price on a shove with most of his draws outside of the big combo draws that have str8 and flush outs. Thanks for your reply, I do appreciate it. I’ll post results sometime tomorrow or the next day after I get some more feedback.
Pretty interesting hand. Okay, so call is definitely horrible here, we quite agree with that I guess.
I don’t really get what he’s trying to represent. Like you say, he has only few value hands here, like KJ, 44 and 33 → 8 combo’s.
Exactly, flush draws and straight draws are really in his betting range like this, and even more with this kind of TAG players.
A raise would be pretty exploitable here, I think if I raise I would be raising him to something like 7.5 million (UTG is still here though but doesn’t worry us too much though…).
What would we represent though ? AK, maybe KK, KQs, KJs maybe, sometimes JJ, AA which consists of lot of hands!
Honestly, a fold would be ok too, maybe wait for another opportunity, but bbkids would be exploiting you too much here too.
BTW, if you shove, he’s gonna fold his bluffs and sometimes his medium hands I suppose, so that makes a raise good in this instance too.
I don’t like any raise less than a shove here. If you bet less and he shoves, you pretty much have to call, so you might as well maximize your fold equity with a shove. Also, less of a bet puts you in the position where you don’t have enough behind to make a meaningful bet on the river.
This is a good example of why high-aggro styles are so effective. I’ve seen a lot of people tend to discount the upper end of an aggro player’s range, but they guy who opens 72o will also open AA, and if they take the same line with either, it’s not easy to know where you stand.
Totally agree, thought he had 6.9 million (was the size of the pot) behind though, my bad. Yeah, you want some fold equity there, my raise means shove in this instance. UTG is still here though.
UTG folded, if he called this is a snap fold for sure
raising to 7.5 would make the pot 20M and leave effective stack at 5M, it’s all in or fold, if we’re going for it here with T high we need max pressure. Plus we don’t want to give bb direct odds on calling with his draws which this smaller sizing would do.
We can rep all the sets KK JJ 77 44 (24) AA (6) AK (16) and KJs (2) 48 total combos of value.
100% My main reasoning too is that going to 7.5M will give bb’s flush draws the correct direct odds to call and fold missed rivers saving 5M in his stack. All in is the only bet that prices out flush draws.
I don’t think it’s necessarily that they discount the tops of ranges, they just know that agro has so much more in the middle and at the bottom in a way diluting the top of range. Not enough players do this and over fold to aggression, this is what makes good lag play profitable.
BTW, if you’re posting some more HH, please write the c and f in full words lol, it makes it hard to read sometimes, and when you haven’t got much time, then you’re starting to say nonsense because of that lol.
Would be nice of you
My bad, I must have missed your corrections. I’ll write out HH’s more plainly. Checking 77 and 44 here is going to be player dependant a lot. Being OOP to bb and knowing how he reacts to signs of weakness plus not blocking top pair in a 4 way pot are good reasons to think about check raising. I chose to x/c because the btn folded and now I’m only oop to bb. You have to have a fold button though if that flush draw comes in.
I’m interested in your thinking why you didn’t cbet the flop with the gssd + bdfd. Firing away on this type of board is sort of why you open T8s in the first place. It’s also a nice hand to go for a check-raise on the flop with, against a hyper-aggro player.
As played, if you call the flop you have to be planning to attack on most turns. Otherwise just fold the flop.
By the turn he has a lot of Jx, small sets and not much else that’s good, so x-r jamming is going to apply a lot of pressure in a good spot. This has to be one of the weakest hands in your range so it makes sense to turn it into a bluff.
You’ve got a very good point, and IMO check/raising flop is optimal. Honestly, now I’m thinking about it, I would check/raise > bet > check/call on the flop. If you check/raise here, you can fire turn again and you’ll be representing these big value hands very good. If you check/call and check/raise turn, hmmm idk, like AA, KK or JJ wouldn’t play like that for example.
And bet flop and fire turn again seems pretty fine too, playing just safe with these premiums is highly credible.
When I get 3 callers and oop with two of them one is very agro I’m not getting through often enough and just bloating a pot that I’m going to have a really hard time winning. Another point, bbkids is very aggressive but he does think about the game. I feel like I need to mix it up with him, if I open and c bet too often oop to him he’ll use his position and start raising a lot. Short story long, I can’t just take standard lines with bb all the time or he’ll sniff them out. One last thing, UTG paid an auto bb having just come in, but only bought in for 50 bb’s so I don’t want to just go crazy with this guy in the pot and effective SPR of 2.25.
There are a good number of cards that I can work with on the turn. Being in first position actually works out for me at the 6 max table specifically because I have bb on my direct left. It allows me to let him dictate the action and see what everyone else does before I have to decide how to deal him.
utg in the hand came in for 50 bb’s then flatted his first hand a raise to 450K and now has called a bet for 1M on the flop with 3.5M back. x/r here seems suicidal.
I absolutely play these this way, KK less with A’s looming in the deck but AA and JJ I would x/c flop a ton. It’s all table dependant and then villain dependant. I’ve played enough with bb that there is meta game and it’s real and he knows I’m doing my best to balance my x and bet range vs him, especially oop. If I’m not checking strong hands then I’m losing every pot I play oop with this guy that I don’t flop big. He can’t just attack my x range because he knows that I know…
