I hear this stuff from time to time, too. Will someone please explain to me how, with many thousands of players playing at the same time in different games the random card generator can single out a single player or class of players to generate bad cards or ensure bad beats?? I am serious - I really would like an answer. If people are making these allegations/assumptions it must be a matter of fact that this can be done - otherwise it is just silly whining. Most of the time I see players with good cards try to slow play all the way to the river to cash in big when there is a chance of a flush or open-ended straight, etc. on the board. So they play right into bad beats. But will someone please tell me how RP manipulates the software to target individual players. I’m not that tech savvy.
I think the big number of bad beats is due to the big number of bad players (or bad play) on the site. When players view this as a free site that won’t cost them anything if they keep calling or chasing with absolutely nothing, they just do it. And they end up hitting miracles on the river that any average player would have folded before actually getting to see.
If I may quote @vtpcwizard on a similar issue, he said:
It’s amazing how far some players would go for a small pot when they think they have a winning hand. In the last couple of days alone, I have played at tables where some players would bet 5000 chips at the flop when the pot is 90 chips. Others would go all in at the turn with about 10 000 chips, when the pot is about 120 chips. I always say something in such situations, like why are you betting 10 x the pot, and a reply that stands out is “I don’t want to get rivered”.
No matter the logic behind it, I still think that a bet worth 100 x the pot is just bad play.
i fully agree with you that such a massive overbet is just bad play in almost all cases, but there are situations i also do such a thing, and when i do it’s often succesful. which is when you hold a monster and there is an possible out for your opponent which he is likely to have and thinking it’s best.
example: you hold KQ with a board of 89TJ2 rainbow, you know you won’t get paid off unless he has a straight, even if he has a 7, he won’t be investing a lot since you can easily have the Q, so lets say the pot is 100, you hold 5000 in your stack, i would gladly go all-in here to everyone except the best opponents. this because no hand but the queen will invest here anyway, while the Q will be prepared to risk it all assuming he is best anyway.
I agree with you @yiazmat however, this is a very specific scenario, and more importantly, you are talking about a bet after the river, where you have thought of all possible outcomes. The bets I was talking about all happen after the flop or the turn, making them even more harmful than beneficial to the player.
With real money, this all goes away.
I don’t think you are completely correct, Billbologna, at least according to my own experience. Maybe one should say, people would play in a different way if lots of money were involved.
At the real money site at which I played for some years, the players’ attitude was more or less the same as it is here, either at tournaments with small buy-ins – say till $ 30 – or at the 5/10 cents cash games.
The only advantage to me there, as I am very interested in foreign languages, was to learn daily how to say “fish”, “donk”, “idiot”, “moron” etc. in all possible languages, or how to “criticise” the sexual orientation of poker players or even the easy virtue of their poor mothers. LOL
Kidding, of course, but fact is the reactions to an alleged “donk-like” play were often rude and extremely vulgar.
Well, my vocabulary in Russian, Bulgarian, Polish, Spanish or whatever might not be that rich and colourful any more, but I certainly prefer more elegant manners at a poker table, or as for that, everywhere.
I’m with Miri on this. While I can’t speak about “real” on line games, experience in live casino poker shows that every lower stakes ($10-$20 and under) game has its madmen, donks, and such. Sometimes they’re under the influence of strange substances, sometimes they’ve watched too much TV poker, sometimes they think rules and odds don’t apply to them, sometimes they just don’t know any better. A few are even willing to take a beating just to be the table bully for a few hands. The obnoxious ones get tossed by the management pretty quickly, the well behaved are allowed to stay until they either run out of money (usually too soon!) or win enough to go bother a higher stakes table. Also, fools come with all sizes of bankroll, so what you or I might think is an impressive bet may not mean anything to them. Somehow, we have to learn to play against all of them. No one said it would be easy, just fun.
i agree with you too @Maya it was meant as an example there are exceptions to the rule (also on flop or turn).
but i agree in general it’s just a horrible play, as bluff it’s makes you risk it all to win next to nothing. and as valuebet, all you do is let your opponent fold instead of pay
I think that T.V. poker has almost ruined the game. People want to go all in before the flop, as if it was a game of bingo, or they want to bully everyone off the table with a huge bet, even when they have a winning hand. They seem to think that the point of the game is to go all in. This does correct itself with real money games.
I try to spend the first half of a game with my eye on the TV or reading a news story, so I don’t get too sucked into the madness of the game when there’s someone going all in to win 45 chips. You could say I’m a lazy player and will let others at the table do the work of knocking out those looking for the thrill of going all in when the blinds are still low.
I’m starting to get a bit suspicious with all the losing I am doing on really good hands. Always on the river with cards that normally would have been folded long ago.
Because they never fold! Any good player would fold, but not our bad players. No No No! They never fold. I’m starting to wonder if it’s the smart thing to do, you know, to never fold.
Listen to this hand, it just happened now. The flop was AAQ and I had AQ. My all in didn’t scare Mr X at all, he called it with his JJ. I’m not sure what he was thinking or expecting with 2 aces on board, but he risked all his stack to call my bet with his JJ. And guess what, he was right. The turn was a J and the river was the 4th J. He beat me with quads and I was out of the tourney
That happens way too much here for this to be considered anything but entertainment. Thats probably happened a dozen times to me here, not once in real life games.
What makes me wonder is, if Mr X had folded like a normal poker player would have done, this wouldn’t have happened. So is the miracle the fact that a J came on turn and river, or is the real miracle the fact that he went all in with something no one in their right mind would even consider calling a bet with?
Maybe he has played here long enough to know the algorithm on this site. Honestly I have no idea why someone would make that call otherwise. Unless you are trying to suicide your chips, there is no rational reason to make that call. It is irritating as the hot world deep under ground. Im on thin ice here so I have to choose my words carefully. Id hate to get banned for 1000 years.
That’s a hand to save for sure. Wow.
I think we all agree that it was an absurd call, Maya. Like earlier, I lost an all-in with pocket AA to K5. Ironic was that the winner was a player who often got into trouble for criticising much too “openly” such moves. That made me laugh.
On the other side, we wouldn’t discuss of miracle rivers or algorithms, if people played a proper poker. This is an important point.
Because, no good player would actually call an all-in with JJ when on board there are AAQ, or with pocket K5, no matter if in the end they succeed.
But do you know what surprises me the most? The players at the table who in such cases congratulate the winners. Maybe it is just an automatic act of courtesy, I obviously can’t say, but somehow I get the impression they approve of such bad plays, as long as they are successful.
Oooh, I’m kind of guilty of that. However they do it, if they take the hand, I say, “Well played.” Because in fact rakin’ in the chips is what we’re all trying to do.
You’re right miri. That’s exactly what happened. The “vnh” and “gh” congratulating Mr X were all over the place. To be fair, the hand is actually a nice one. I mean quads are what you call a nice hand. But it’s the way they were obtained that’s not well played at all. In fact it’s just bad play. And now, as expected, MR X thinks that it was the best thing to do, calling with JJ, not only because he actually won the hand, but also because of all the encouragement and congratulations. I have a feeling he will keep playing that way, but will he keep getting as lucky?