Agree with the analysis on the KKK hand. In fact the opponents might well have folded to a pot sized bet on the flop.
I’m not even looking for analysis on how to improve my game at this point, I’m just posting every hand I lose, because they’re so comical. I’m hoping this changes my table image from a nitty preflop, frequent bluffer post flop into a maniac calling station/complete idiot, so I can start winning again. Think it’ll work? How much do I have to pay to earn the reputation, do you think?
But I agree with you, probably you’re right. If I bet pot, or half pot, maybe they all fold. What good is that for me? I win a few hundred chips, and start off the game right. What good is that? I’d rather lose 2500 chips and a 50k buy-in on KK than win 450 chips with it.
I wanted to get called here. I wanted the pot big. By the time the Turn comes, it’s too late. I can already see someone hitting Straight with this hand, and maybe they’ve done so already. I bet small hoping that if someone did hit it on the Turn, that they’ll shove, and I can get off the hand.
When the river brings the 3, I absolutely know someone has it, and I want to give them all my chips, because they obviously deserve them, having the better hand.
By the way, I’m absolutely delighted to see Q6s take this hand from the jerk with the Ace. Ace never folds, and always thinks it’s secure when it hits a Wheel. It’s so satisfying to see it lose to a random 6.
And did we note that once again it’s the smallest ranked cards in the hole that take the hand? Are we seeing the pattern yet?
Shooting the moon is a thing in poker, right? Guys?
All the classic traps:
- The game where I get a steady diet of 74, 83, 62, K2, and I fold for 18 orbits while no one is going out, and every rag hand I fold is hitting trips, straights, boats, but I’m not playing them so I don’t get anything for it, and then finally I catch a hand like K9s, and think well it’s finally my turn to play, this isn’t great but it’s still the best hand I’ve seen in 35 minutes of folding rags, so here goes, and so I try to raise it up only to run it into AA or KK, and get killed.
- The game where I’m seeing lots of beautiful painted cards, but no pairs, like AQ, AK, AJ, KJ, KQ, the whole royal family, really, but every single flop misses me. Either something scary like a paired flop, or a suited flop, or a straight flop. Or it’ll be the other members of the Broadway pack, missing one, and it’s obvious that someone has hit either a pair of Aces, or two pair of some broadway cards, drawing to a full house, or maybe a set of Jacks, just anything that can put me off betting and get me to fold. Or chase the Broadway straight and miss it.
- The game where I hit a flop decently well but inexplicably can’t get someone holding junk like 43o or something from playing, and they end up making two pair or a straight.
- The game where some complete maniac is shoving every other hand, sometimes rags, sometimes nuts, and you can’t tell which it is because they’re absolutely psycho, and so you try calling them with like AQ or KK, and either they suck out if you called with a high pair, or they dominate your AQ with AA, or they have a pair of 4s but your AQ misses the board entirely.
- The game where some player will always call you to the river on bottom pair and win.
- The game where no one bets the flop or the turn, so you bet, and then someone has been slow playing a set or an Ace, and jams you.
- The game where someone calls your position bluff, even though you let out a full pot bet, so you check the Turn and they shove you off of your nothing hand.
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I suspect AJ would have called at least 6BB there. Q6s would be getting over 2-1, so he might come along too. That makes a pot of over 500, and a pot size bet or more should have ended it, earning you something like 15% of your starting stack as a profit in the first hand. That’s enough to coast for at least 3 or 4 orbits and let them slug it out. Seems worth doing to me.
You aren’t looking for advice, OK, fair enough. But you aren’t the only one reading this thread either. Maybe all the comments will help someone else in some small way. That seems worth doing too, so on we go!
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I do appreciate the comments. I’m mostly posting here to vent about these stupid run outs and idiot-savant calls that have killed me for the last two-three days or so.
I think I’ve worked it out of my system for the time being. These long strings of BS games are something, though. Even though it cost me about 200-250k chips or so in sacrificed buy-ins, I think (hope?) playing like a suicidal maniac for a couple of days has maybe helped in some small way to make my table image a little less predictable.
I just had a great game, where I played solid, hands went well, I hit flops, I hit draws, I had most of the chips about halfway through, I knocked 2-3 players out, and wore the remaining players down, went heads-up with BOOTKAMP, who is a legit good player, and took him out HU through what I’ll call skill.
Quite possible, but I wouldn’t have known they had those cards. And unless AQ was very disciplined, I’d give 2:1 they’d call an all-in open on the first hand. I’d have to go back and look at who that player was in order to see if I could really predict it. But say I do get them all in, there’s no folding at that point and we get to the river, and I get beat. Which would have been just as hilarious.
Arguably, they might not have called at the flop if I’d bet pot, or shoved there. Oh well. I was looking for how the deck would screw me, and I found my answer.
KK is a good starting hand, because you are guaranteed a minimum of second pair on the flop, and in most cases will have top pair at the flop. However, if you can’t take the pot at the flop, especially when you get another king on the flop, your odds are all downhill from this point. If the board pairs, you will have the nuts, assuming that the pair are not aces, if you hit a straight, it will be a nut straight, if you hit a flush, it will be second best flush, so it is all good? Except that most of the time KK will not improve and becomes more vulnerable on later streets.
If your KK does NOT improve on the flop, your hand is really no better than playing in the Big Blind with K5 and hitting top pair with a King on the flop, because K5 has more ways to improve than does KK.
However it is a fact that while hands like AA, KK, QQ, and AK are the best starting hands, early on in low stack tournament games they can get you into a lot of trouble when you run into an obstinate ---->
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I was playing a $100 buyin SnG last time I was in Vegas. It folds around to a guy in middle position, who puts in a smallish raise. I’m on the button with KK, shove, and the BB and opener both call. I flip over my kings, and both of the other guys had aces. Ooops!
I remember thinking, “Well, at least neither of them can hit a set, one more king and I got this!” As I predicted, neither of them hit a set, but neither did I. Eh, such things happen when yer pokering.
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I hear tell, that snit only happens on replay…
Well, I’ve now won my last two 9-seat SNG tables, both times easily, hardly losing any hands, taking a huge stack into 4-up play and holding onto it and then knocking out the #2 finisher quickly. My hands are hitting, I’m getting good pots, and everything seems easy now. I guess the curse is lifted.
Update: 3rd win in a row, and it was a laugher. After going all-in on a pair of 8s which was top pair on the flop, I won the opening hand and knocked out the first player and half of another, and it was a cruise from there. I tightened up and won just about every hand I played, only losing one moderately big pot when I tried to knock out a small stack who went all in on AJ, when I called with K9.
OK this was some BS.
I got AK in an early hand, flop paired the Ace. I’m up against someone with A8, they river an 8 to suck out and take most of my chips. I’m down to like 750, but I hang tough and come back, getting back up to health with some bold plays, including a really nice check-shove that enabled me to double up, and a couple of bluff shoves that worked. I get to where I’m comfortable playing more hands, and lose a few chips, then get killed in a hand where I hit two pair early, and someone else hit a flush on the river. Now I’m down to like 1200 chips again. Then I lose connection. This almost never happens, although I hear of it happening to others sometimes. I’m out of the game for a few hands, finally get reconnected about 2 minutes later. I wake up holding 22, with a few seconds left to decide if I’m in or out, and I muck in an abundance of caution, not being able to sustain a raise with this stack, and not sure where the rest of the table is at. Flop would have given me a full house, 2s full of Kings. The next hand, I’m dealt A2o, and decide not to play it, because again I can’t risk playing a hand like A2 , and wouldn’t you know it, A2 would have made a boat too. Next hand, I get A4s, play it, pair the Ace, shove hoping to close the hand, and sure enough someone else has a better Ace and knocks me out. Shouldn’t have played A4s, I know, but after missing 2 monsters in a row I wasn’t thinking right and just wanted to get in with the next hand, thinking it’s a hot streak. Well, streaks are a mirage more than anything.
Maybe it’s just me, but missing 2 hands in a row doesn’t seem like much of a “hot streak.”
Whatever, I’m not trying to be scientific with the definition of “hot streak”. But missing two full houses in a row got me thirsty to get into the next hand, which combined with the network connection made me lose my focus and stop thinking clearly, and got my in trouble.
Like, most likely, if the outage doesn’t take me out of the game for a minute, I might have played the 22, if I could limp it, or sustain a small open. I wasn’t aware of what my position was with the couple of seconds I had left, or how many players were in the hand, because I didn’t have enough time to read that, but if it was late position and short handed, I might well have played to see if I hit a set on the flop. If I did well in building a big pot with the flopped boat, that would have put me in very good shape, and I probably would have passed on playing the A2, though. Who knows.
Today’s wild game.
I play the first 3 hands due to being in the blinds, fold each time on the flop. I get dealt AA in the opening orbit. I open raise from 30 to 200, no one comes in, I get 135 chips profit.
I get AQs, flop top pair, Queens. Villain flops two pair JT. I have only the King to hit Broadway, but it doesn’t show. I bet half-pot on the Turn and am raised all-in by the Villain, call, and get killed, leaving me with like 250 chips. I’m done.
I fold until I’m the BB, then shove 77. Two players come in with me, both hit hands, but I make a set, and beat JJ and AT, pair of Tens. I’m up to about 900 chips.
I shove a few hands later when I land a straight draw, in the face of a half-pot sized bet. Due to stack size relative to pot size, I might as well. I end up making the straight and take the hand, going up over 3100 chips.
A few hands later, a big hand goes down as another short-stack triples or quadruples up on AA, shoving a 350-chip stack in and getting multiple calls. A hand or two later, I’m dealt AK. A player in early position opens to 750 chips. I try to jam, shoving, they call, flip up AA, and I’m back down to 400 chips. A few hands later, I’m out 9th.
Three pocket rockets dealt in about 3 orbits.
I dont understand you guys as to why you making game analysis on this site…This site is not where you work the odds and percentages…for heavens sake can you name 10 players who calculate odds and play poker on this site? for omaha name one player…
Bingo players have infested the site, from the 1k game buy in to the 250k buy in…you will get called no matter what you hold, what pot odds are you calculating aganst two or three bingo players…you dont stand a chance as the site lets these players win… .why go so far…even high ranked players are playing bingo…somehow they are favoured…
Which kind of strategy do you think you can use against them…?
what can you do against luck boxes?
And i keep repeating myself every single tourney you will have one real total hopeless player who keeps wining …defies all odds and all percentages…
This is not the place where in you are questioning your game ,your skill or the strategy you are going to apply…throw it out of the window and enjoy the game as much as it allows you to rather than getting frustrated as there is no room for poker calculations…
You can win here when your good luck exceeds your bad luck…then you can tick every box in your poker book…
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I get your point Jazz, but the way you express it, there is no difference between just going all in every hand or using some kind of common sense (calculations be damned) deciding whether or not your hand is viable.
…sorta takes the enjoyment you were talking about right outta the game.
My main take away from your post is that if you don’t wanna be called, don’t bet?
Grateful…i can only tell you what i see at the tables…
Few of the games today-
first hand in the 50k tourney- i have AA ,i go all in got called with QQ,Q on the river
next 50k tourney- last 7 players- im dealt 22 flop is 289 and im all in called with 99 and 9 on the river
Guess what- same player…a calling station even otherwise…im not saying it was not a call…
pure luck…
im currently in a 50k tourney-
player one raised 1020,player before me calls the 1020 with 59(player ranked 11k)
my turn with KK i call the bet i dont raise.
flop is Q67,check,check,then i go all in
player one folds,player two calls the all in hits a straight…
then in the 20k tourney
im all in KK,get called Q4 off,he hits a straight
same tourney player ranked 49k is chipleader with 130,000 chips,next player 50k chips
for sure he took me out with 2 spades on flop and i was all in on flop with 99 and with a Q out there but i just knew he didnt have it…he called and hits flush on river…he was bound too thats the algorithm works here…you cant beat the system.
Earler hand had top pair on my BB he needed runner runner and he got it i lost 10,000 chips
call was 1500 chips,no problem because he was going to hit one way or another…but i knew i was golden but given that hes got 130k chips and calling any two cards hes on a reply roll…
So please explain to me what is the strategy,pot odds and percentages that you can calculate over here…as long as you dont have your house on the line its all fun and games as seriously as you may play…
Yes ofcourse there are tournies which are fought well when one dodges most of the bingo players,but there are just too many these days,in a tourney of 60 odd players atleast 30 players will call any two
cards …the rest may try to play by the book…but these players will take out atleast 10 play by book players…So im saying there are good players,they make the final 10/15 consistently …and this mix atleast two calling stations make it and they will take out another 5 players…
if you look at the leaderboards of MMT-high or medium…you will always find 10 odd players consistent…
week on after week they manage to win or place in the money…but no one is a clear no.1,2,3 player.
When i look at the table and see 10k to 50k plus ranked players totally outnumbering lower ranked players i can see a nightmare happening…and it comes true…
i did ask a player on few occassions-how can you call that most times you will get radio silence as honestly he doesnt have a reply-i dont blame him,with all my knowledge i dont know why so how in th world will he know…hes a pure bingo player…
Whats great here are the lovely people,the few you compete well for leaderboard,play to be in the money…it use to frustrate me so much as to how the hell do make those calls which defies every aspect the way the game should be played out but now ive come to terms with the scenario here’…atleast i’ve tried…
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@jazzbythebay, the one thing I notice in all of these hands is that you lost. I doubt the winner of those hands is complaining, and I’m guessing if you win a hand from an underdog position, you don’t complain about it, either.
I went through this just recently myself, as this thread attests, and I’m in no way making fun of you, not in any way that I’m not also applying to myself.
Beats happen. With a set of 2s, vs another pocket pair, depending on your stack size, you’re asking to get called, and really you want to get called, you deserve a big pot if you win that hand. Same with AA vs QQ. QQ can call a lot of shoves in a lot of places. Sometimes AA gets beat. Once the chips are all in, there’s no more control to back out if the texture of the board doesn’t look good to you anymore. Would you fold AA if you saw one Queen on the board and your opponent fiercely bet into it? Today I beat AA with 6Q. AA limped, I raised, small, they called, I hit a 6 for top pair on the flop, bet pot, AA called. Turn gave me two pair QQ66, and I just checked. AA shoved, and I took him and knocked him out of the game. Completely his fault for letting it happen, but he didn’t know what he was walking into. Suckouts happen a lot when you can’t force your opponent to fold anymore.
If you look at my examples, there were more than a few where someone called a big preflop open raise from me, holding rag garbage that should have been mucked even if the whole table limped, and then flopped into 2 pair and that’s enough to crack a higher pocket pair about half the time.
In situations like that, either someone has a window into the future, possibly hacking the site, to be able to make that call, or else it’s the rule of 8 insane players, and there’s always one who will call you on any given hand and they always win. Which statistically is so improbable, that I think it’s more likely that someone was playing with X-ray glasses.
I’m not saying my beats are worse than your beats. (Those specific ones, I’d argue, yes they were, but that’s not really my point.) My point is that the thing in common with all of these hands is that the person complaining about them is the one who lost the hand.
Myself, I would like to blame the players more than the RNG. I don’t think the site is rigged to help short stacks and give longshots to players on the river. It’s a little more possible that some players have figured out how to see the cards (through hacking) in advance and know the outcome before the flop, but I have absolutely no evidence of that, other than the suspicious, otherwise inexplicable calls on too many hands to be likely. But even then, it wasn’t like that sustained that player over the long haul, and enabled them to win every hand or win the whole game, or even finish in the chips. So I’m inclined to not believe that theory, either.
It’s most likely that streaky random freak events happen and you’ll run through periods where you can’t win no matter what you do, and it’s a combination of everything: cold hole cards, dry flops, brick turns and rivers that never fill your draw, a couple of random dumb plays that idiots win, and going on tilt and playing horrible. It happened all at the same time to me last Monday, and it’ll probably happen again.
I was just in a game here where I saw AA come up 3 times in 2 orbits, and that’s the second game tonight where that’s happened. So, despite what I say above, I sure wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out that the RNG did have something wrong with it. But I’ve seen AA come in back to back hands several times in a row. I’ve seen a lot of improbable things.
If we could run analysis on all the hands ever dealt, all 500 million of them, the stats should tell you how well the RNG is matching up with what probability dictates it should. The only variable that would cause the site to legitimately deviate from random probability, given a fair RNG, would be people folding before drawing hands have a chance to be made.
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Puggy we always have open hearted discussions and always respected ones…
just off the tables… with the board showing 2377 and i am holding k7 i just called rank 130 odd player 400 chips (we both had 2300 chips) and he bet the 400 i just called it,thinking my kicker is good…the river is a 8 and hes holding 88…very next hand i have just 750 chips i go all in A9…he called with QQ…flop looked good 6810 …lolllll didnt hit though…just another case of a high ranked player who is lucky…and honestly never seen him play with any skill sets…probably has them not sure…
so every tourney i have played today it appears that i had a more than 75% chance of winning the hands i lost all of them…
No i dont think the site is rigged,there are just some luck boxes…and such luck you cant imagine how they keep getting luck every single day or say 5 out of 7 days…it baffles me completely…its like they know they are going to suck out…
to say some players hack the site? i will reserve my comments here…but to think about it they would rather be hacking a site wherein there is a payout…
Ive seen a player make 300 million on the trot every month without fail and in equal amounts…not one month of failure or regression but an every month bagful of chips …can you explain that? however good you may be…if you playing at the 100 million level every month dont you think you may back track once and drop 100 million instead of gaining 300 million every month?
As for periods you cant win-yes for sure…try whatever you want you just wont win…been there,done that and then very rare days when you simply are invincible…
Ive had interesting conversations when sometimes ive had replies…one guy told me he saw Daniel Negreanu and Phil Ivey limp in with donkey hands and win pots…'with almost 150,000 dollars in the pot…he said it was on the internet…well…what the internet doesnt show the 500 hands they limped and lost or folded…the one off or two hands are displayed so it appears that you can do the same…Yeah you can do it more than them as yours is not real money and besides you saw less than 2% of what the reality is…
I dont know how many times i must have got KK and ive got my all in called with a low ranked player with A2/A4 and 9 out of 10 times ive lost those hands…pot size being large most times…and you know the calls have been insta nothing to think they got the Ace and hes engaged and married to his hand no matter what you raise…hes calling it…
One thing is for sure- if you are being sucked out more than you suck out then you are not on the luck list…