The fairness debate

Suggestions & Feedback
1152

In the scenario discussed, the player wasn’t seeing a flop, but going all in along with 5 other players. You may not see a difference in this but I certainly do, especially if this is a tournament.

Regardless, I think most people would look to get their chips in the middle in far better spots than this one. Risking your entire stack at these thin odds is a poor play. Attacking bad poker with worse poker isn’t a strategy I’d recommend to anyone. In fact, a basic rule of thumb would be to tighten up when play is loose and loosen up when play is tight. If you are playing with people as reckless as described and so willing to get all their chips in the middle, wait for a premium hand and shove then.

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1153

I thought you meant call all-in with 56o. I might limp with 56o from late position if there were enough other limpers in front of me. But, I would not call a raise, and I would not generally limp 56o. While you may have enough equity preflop, 56o is a hand that leads to very difficult decisions later in the hand and bad reverse-implied odds (when you have a very strong hand, your opponents can have a stronger hand and get your whole stack).

I would always fold 56o (unless I get a free flop in the big blind) because it can so rarely make the nuts and is often 2nd best. If you make a straight there often can be higher straights, if you flop 2 pair you have to worry about straights or higher 2 pair (since 56 is likely to be bottom 2 pair). If you flop trips you are crushed by boats and A6-5. Even if you end up with a full house it will rarely be the nuts.

This may sound fearful, but it is actually this kind of logic that shows why limping and flat calling is a bad play in general. You have no info about your opponents and are just waiting to get a lucky flop. But even when you do get a good flop (which is rare), you are either likely to win a small pot or lose to an even better hand.

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1154

talking about play money,

real money , I fold this ;unless it is a BBS.

and was referring to ring, not tourney. unless u have only 3M then it’s a go with 5 other callers,

and correct it’s a back hand, but with 5 other callers, limpers, or a raise, it’s very very close to a good call. even if all in more so if all in.

1155

First of all, the same strategy is correct regardless of play chips vs real chips. You are saying you will gamble your play chips for 12% equity to quintuple up, which is fine, but with 5 opponents with even stacks going all in, you should want to have at least 20% equity (1/5), which 56o almost never does. If an opponent has a 5 or a 6, your equity could be less than 10%. It’s fine to gamble on a negative expected value, it’s like playing the slot machines or the lottery. It’s just not good poker.

In a similar scenario AA has over 40% equity. I still would rather not get all in against 5 opponents, but if I do it will be with either AA or KK. No other hand is likely to have the equity to make it worthwhile. I would not even play in a game that involved such high variance decisions because it reduces the value of skill, which is what makes poker fun.

1156

Joe - just peeked in at a hand because I saw someone register for a tournament I was going to play and wanted to see if he was still a dufus or not. Yep, sure was so I decided not to play the SnG and just moved on. Won’t tell you which player I was looking at but I’m pretty sure you can guess. Take a peek at this hand:

10K entry MTT. This is pretty much the level of play we peons see whenever we play. Pretty good example of why #chips is nearly irrelevant in terms of rank as well. Bought or won or whatever - it is not a great indicator of skill.

Even in the pro ranks, it isn’t a good metric. Just consider Antonio Esfandiari. He is near the top of the all-time tournament money winners though I doubt anyone would consider him to be anywhere close to a top ranked player. He won a huge prize and that 1 win put him in the top 10 by itself. Now is he good? Sure. Did he win a boatload in that 1 tournament? Sure did. Would anyone consider him to be an all-time top 10 tournament player? Not a chance. Jared Bleznick in cash would be another great example.

Maybe not the thread for this post but hands like this one explain a lot, from why you see bad-beats all the time to accusations of the site being rigged to how we should calculate rank to the issue with nutty bingo-play.

1157

Dude, he was suited! Suited, I tell ya!

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1158

Roger that Bandit. Can’t understand how he didn’t win. Must be rigged or something :slight_smile:

Bad beat, part 16,987 (feels like it anyway) - dropped pocket A’s to 9’s late in the 15K Euro Million. I managed to cash but that one left me crippled. All-in shove by me in early position with ~10BB left and a single call from the button who had about 6BB. Other player flopped a set and hit quads on the river for good measure. It happens but always stings when it does. Not for a second did it cross my mind that the site may be rigged against me though. 80/20 means I’m dropping the hand 1 in 5 times - not an insignificant number.

https://www.replaypoker.com/hand/replay/286028246

1159

This is your first “Warning” for whining…

1160

I don’t quite see what either of these hands say about rank or the site being rigged. It is unlucky,but big pairs always lose big pots to flopped sets (I’ve lost to a flopped set half the time I’ve played live, which, admittedly, is not many times).

As for the other hand, yeah it didn’t make sense, but neither does min-raising or min-3betting like the other players in the hand did. He only had 15 bbs, so he either thought he could get some folds, or that he had 2 live cards and just wanted out of the tournament. Also, the player in that hand appears to be ranked ~2500, which is around the threshold of players who are actually trying to win and where differentiation by rank begins to be useful, so I would not assume a player of that rank is very good.

I will not defend the skill of any particular player on Replay, no matter their rank, but given what little information we have about our opponents, the number of chips in their bankroll is still very predictive of their ability, at least as the ranks get better. Playing in 20k/40k ring, it is easy to spot the difference between the 400-ranked player and the 40-ranked player. I don’t play buy-ins under 50k much anymore because a lot of players just aren’t trying. It is easy to beat players who play that way, it just isn’t as much fun. As I move up the stakes on Replay, I realize that a lot of the better players aren’t that great either. They mostly just play ABC poker, don’t make too many mistakes, and know how to get value from their opponent’s mistakes, but they are exploitable. I’d group the players on Replay in bands from 900,000 to 20,000, 20,000 to 5,000, 5,000 to 2,500, 2,500 to 1,000, 1,000 to 500, 500 to 300, 300 to 150, 150 to 80, 80 to 30, 30 to 12, and then there is probably even more clear differentiation among the top players because they have way more chips than everybody else and probably play short-handed games against each other (but I am not at that level, so I could not say for sure). These rankings are not a sure thing and don’t say anything about style of play, but in terms of predicting ranges and the types of mistakes someone is likely to make, they are very useful starting points.

Also, I’m no expert on the world’s top poker players, though I watch the WSOP and the former EPT, but I definitely don’t think Antonio Esfandiari is a bad player. Maybe he is not on par with the elite players of today (the game seems to have changed in the past five years). I don’t even know if he still plays in a lot of tournaments anymore, but he definitely was one of the better live tournament players out there. The prize pools on Replay don’t shift the way they do in real life.

1161

more flushes,str8s and splits then i have ever seen ,such bull dealing

1162

I have seen allegations that this site is rigged…

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1163

If I may add my two cents worth !! no the site is not rigged !! period !

1164

Someone send me this:

When you win too much on Replay ‘Poker’ while not being part of their club, your
account will be put in a category. A certain ‘loser category’ where your hands will
suck, whatever stakes or tables you play, whatever you try. Being listed also
means that:

  1. You will be followed by a group of Replay’s high-stakes players who will suck
    you dry, however well you play.
  2. Replay’s provocateurs will keep harrassing you to put you off your game.

Once listed you will lose all as this might encourage the buying of more chips
ofcourse. Money has to be made (!!!).

It might also happen that you are dc’ed for a moment, just when your in a ‘high-
pot’ hand while holding the nuts. Your browser might crash, and sometimes even
your OS. Losing your hand, your seat and your concentration. People are being
fucked with.

Replay’s card-generator is programmed to give out many magic straights, flushes,
full-houses etc…, this shows the cards ARE NOT being dealt randomly.
Something which is crucial in real poker. Being catagorized means being put
on the wrong end of this card-generator.

Replay ISN’T poker; it’s a silly magic card game. It looks like poker but it’s not. If
they would call it “Replay’s Magic Card Game”, there wouldn’t be an issue.

I’ve played enough myself to have seen the way this instable site works. People who do not bet/play/win a lot will never be confronted with all this. The majority of account holders are therefore unaware, and they should be (!). That also counts for people who are regular buyers, they are, ofcourse, the most valued costumers. Nontheless, it exists and it isn’t fair.

Win too much, play too well? Your account will be categorized (for the worst),
and you will lose all you have won before.

There’s tons of fishy stuff going on: the Replay scam. Btw: why does Google Analitics monitor these tables?

Just so you know, enjoy, and never buy chips on Replay!

1165

I don’t know, what do you guys think?

1166

All in and you couldn’t even beat the community cards. Must be rigged and Santa is the dealer.
Dont need to say anything else.

1167

I got sent something once too. This Nigerian prince needed me to help him get tons of gold out of the country. I’m still waiting for the gold.

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1168

Tons of gold eh!. He told me it was tons of goats…lol

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1169

The persecution complex that some people have is hilarious.

Nobody seems to consider that they may have been categorized into category C (since we seem to be categorizing people). Category C consists of people who are not good at poker but refuse to try to learn.

I have played live games at casinos with guys who were regs who were laughing about all the “fish” who come to their table, and guess what? These “regs” were all really bad at poker. Poker is like sex, everyone thinks they are good at it, and almost everyone is wrong.

1170

Thank you whoeveryouare. I haven’t mentioned any of my hands, and thus not the one you posted either. I took a risk and lost, bad luck, no probs. You’re getting very personal, this explaines a lot. Thanks again for that.

1171

lol