Absolutely perfect!
Thank you very much
I kinda exploited this myself by reloading hands that were mucked just to see what the other player had when it was folded. If there’s a free advantage, why not use it? Of course, other players could do the same thing to me if they wanted to.
Might as well be patched.
Why the [trying to control my temper] would ANY mucked cards ever be shown??? if put my cards in the muck i expect them never to be seen again. by anyone. ESPECIALLY at showdown, but honestly anytime.
this isn’t a live stream. if you want to see my cards you need to pay to see them. And if my position means my hand will get mucked at showdown, that is part of the value of position.
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no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no… Isn’t there a law, or something?
I think there was a league where players showed hands, but was an honor thing.
At the other end of the scale, I often find myself sitting at a new table, going "Wait, did I win that hand?’
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I show my cards after because if bluff then if have it then,so makes players fold or call but am I bluffing or not?
Wow, how brilliant. I never knew you could do this. I don’t suppose anyone wants to let me in on the secret on how this is done?
Hi @Dorkupine,
Exactly! And that is what @fizzymint clarified in the post that you replied to …if I raise the river and you call, or vice versa, then the calling player HAS paid to see their opponents cards and it is perfectly correct for those cards to be shown. The same applies if all the players on the river check through … although no-one has actually “paid” to see the cards, it is still correct that those cards are displayed.
When the implementation of this “feature” is corrected, hole cards that are mucked prior to showdown will stay mucked.
I’m sure fizzy can speak for herself and I’m not trying to put words in her mouth. That is my understanding after I asked for clarification.
Regards,
TA
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The player who gets called has to show anyway, the player who called is supposed to get a choice if they didn’t win, its a pretty standard rule. Its a feature that doesn’t bring any positives to the game at all and its a surprise that replays “ideas” team put this one out there.
Thats the league we play in…Amusement Poker League…NO MUCKING RULE…Winner has to show hands…
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WHat I said is NOT what fizzymint said. If there is a showdown, there is an order to how the cards are supposed to be displayed. If there was action on the last street, then last aggressive bet shows first. otherwise its left of the dealer. then moves left from there.
If I don’t beat the hands that have already showed I have the right to muck the hand. And if I muck, nobody should EVER get to see those cards. Not on the table. Not in the replayer. NOT. EVER.
This is just basic poker and if the site is implementing anything else it is STOOOPID and wrong.
It’s bad enough that you’ve now put this bug into your production code where we can all see every hand that isn’t folded, but the fact that it’s because you were trying to put in something that shouldn’t even be there makes it that much worse.
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What I think would work is that after a tourney or sit 'n go game is complete, we can log in somewhere and watch the whole match with all the cards showing… this would then be like watching a WPT tournament on TV.
To clarify the rule we are introducing regarding Mucked cards.
Currently on Replay, Mucked cards are not visible in the Replay. At showdown, if a player reveals a hand you do not beat, you have the option to Muck your cards without exposing them during the showdown,
Muck does not mean Fold and the hands reaching showdown should be available to be viewed by any player dealt into the hand.
- In a Live setting a player may ask the Dealer to see Mucked cards and the Dealer will ‘kill’ them by touching them against the rest of the dead cards and expose them.
- Online, it is standard that a player dealt in the hand has the right to see those Mucked-at-showdown cards in a Replay.
To begin with, we implemented an incorrect process, and I apologise again for the error, but the intended logic will be standard poker rules.
Rob
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I understand this … but r u saying I must go to the Replay to see those cards? … Shouldn’t the cards that I or my opponent “payed” to see at showdown be Shown right then?? If it is going to be done at least do it right and not add the step of having to go back after the fact
Hi, yes you have to go to the replay. The Mucked cards are only visible to players dealt in the hand and not to observers and are not shown in real time.
Thank-you for your clarification … I had not factored in the balcony 
I think showing the mucked hands even only the players in the hands is plain ridiculous. No major poker site I know of shows mucked hands, with the exception of Ignition–which is anonymous–after a 24 hour delay. Mucked should mean mucked even in the replay. The mucked hands are available immediately through the replay.
It takes the mystery of trying to guess whether your opponent has a bluff or not. If you want to see the cards, you have to pay in my opinion. The beauty of a big river bet is that it leaves a nagging feeling in your opponents where they never know if they made a good fold.
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Unless a player calls a bet at showdown, they have no right to see the bettor’s cards. If the table folds to a bettor, the bettor’s hole cards should never be revealed.
But when called, the bettor must show their hole cards at that time. This includes when a bet was called on a previous street and there was no additional betting at showdown.
One point of uncertainty, however. If I call a player and they reveal cards that beat me, I thought that I had the right to muck my cards without them being seen. Is this incorrect? The bettor has not paid to see my cards; I paid to see theirs.
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Been researching this and apparently it is a rule, the info mainly seemed to apply to live games but a few poker blogs all said the same thing:
"Robert’s Rules of Poker tend to be the governing body of rules for most card rooms, and unless they have specific written rules that override them, these should be the rules you look at.
SECTION 3: The Showdown: 5
Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that was eligible to participate in the showdown, even if the opponent’s hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins."
And some pit boss said:
“As for why, not for information, it is an anti-colluding rule. It is in place to keep the game fair. To stop two players from raising a third out, it doesn’t happen often and is considered rude.”
So two main points to remember at a live game, If you win with a bluff at showdown don’t ask to see their cards or you could lose after you’ve won and if you ask to see their cards at all, your saying you suspect them of cheating.
Replay, can you do a poll to see if the community thinks we need this rule? I doubt collusion happens here at all so its just a way to get info on each other (almost in a cheating way really) that we will all have to start doing to keep up with each others game. Personally I’d rather not have to so put me down for a neigh.
(“Robert’s Rules of Poker” was an interesting read btw, worth a google.)
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The collusion aspect is quite rare. It is possible someone bets with a winning hand and their friend calls with a sure fire loser to feed them chips.
The main reason we changed the rule is to allow all players, especially the bettor, to see all cards at showdown. It is important to note that a bluffer has to show their cards first if they bet the river, so that will not be changed.
Folded cards will not get exposed, only cards revealed at showdown
If anyone bets and the caller Mucks their losing hand. They call but refuse to show the bettor their hand, is that fair? Sure, they called to see the hand, but the bettor has the right to see the rest of the cards which were at showdown.
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The bug raised in this thread has been fixed, and the behavior now works as described
Thank you again for letting us know that this was working incorrectly. If you notice issues with the replayer going forward, please give us a shout!
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