I am asking this for the 3rd time lol. Would really love to hear the community’s thoughts on this!
It’s a terrible size in 90% of situations. I don’t think you need to be a GTO whiz to recognize that if 5 people limp for 30 chips, nobody is going to fold when you make it 60.
So…. why???
Here’s the standard answer:
Overall, the min-raise can be a useful tool in your poker strategy, especially in tournaments where stack sizes are often shorter. However, it’s important to use it judiciously and be aware of the potential downsides.
Fair, but not exacccctly what I’m asking.
I am specifically talking about players—and there are MANY of these types on Replay—who seem to ONLY use 2x as a raise size. They aren’t making a reasoned decision about when it would be most beneficial to use this size; it is just the only size they use.
I propose that the main reasons for this are:
Let’s limit the discussion to preflop. We can surely agree that 2x is ALMOST never an optimal size for a preflop raise, yes?
I think the answer is likely the same as why you see so much half-pot and full-pot bets post flop - it’s the size you get without having to click or manually enter anything.
If they were actually putting any thought into their sizings, these are rarely the best options
I guess it depends on many, many factors.
Talk about optimal sizing, here’s a hand all-in preflop that’s interesting enough.
Joe if you copy the whole URL, we won’t have to enter it manually ourselves to click your hand histories! 
Now let’s take a gander…
EDIT: lol you troll! 
I understand your point.
There are a lot of old timers on here set on automatic.
I’ve said this before when the question was, “when the flop was all clubs.”
The initial reaction is fold in most cases.
Not much thought from the old timers at all about stealing.
However, there are alert players who will always bet trying to steal the pot.
“Massive nits” NOT a good term to use, even, in your eyes, that’s what you see.
They are average players, set in their ways just having fun participating here on Replay.
Nothing wrong with that and even though they miss the obvious to a seasoned pro,
their viewpoint could very well be that they don’t even care about winning.
So, by pointing out certain elements of their game in a harsh way, it is a road that
I personally wouldn’t travel.
You need to realize you’re on a level that very, very few are on.
You’re bordering Phil Hellmuth territory and he said plenty about the lower-level competition.
I know from past posts, you realize how you come across on this forum.
You try to temper that tendency, and you do a good job.
Better than Phil Hellmuth anyway.
I don’t expect you to be perfect, but at the Nordic Warriors, there’s a high bar set.
You’ve brought more players up with your generosity of sharing winning information.
I have a good read on you that you’re walking a fine line and another slip of the tongue
is a real possibility.
I have faith in you!
You’ll someday become a Nordic Warrior Champion and also never say anything
that will bring anyone down here again, even indirectly.
Work on that aspect as hard as you work on your poker game.
It should be no problem, right?
Good point!
Hand #1168662483 · Replay Poker
well said, Joe. Great points. Thanks for the wisdom and sage advice.
The real answer is pretty simple. The raise button is defaulted to min raise.
Hell, even I use 1/2 pot a lot of the time once stacks are super shallow. I figure the lost EV is worth less than being able to play quickly and remain unpredictable.
There typically isn’t any EV loss if your playing the correct range for each bet/raise size, and play perfectly after that.
To be fair, raising to a larger size isn’t likely to generate that many more folds than a min raise unless you choose a massive size (especially if the first limper calls), and it’s much easier to make expensive mistakes with the larger raise size. That applies to your opponents too though, so I still think people would benefit more from using a larger size, but it’s probably fairly close.
Fair point. It can be difficult not get a little hyperbolic if you’re trying to be concise though. Just saying, because I know I’ve done the same many times and hope people don’t take anything too literally. I prefer to judge the play and not the player, but don’t always express that correctly.
How are we not losing EV if we can’t cbet 1.5-2.2x pot on QsTs5h as the PFR with AsJs?
I guess just due to balance?
So there are exceptions at the extremes, like when you should only be over-betting or < quarter potting (the same applies when you use those sizes when you shouldn’t), but there aren’t many of those spots.
QsTs5h is a good example. It depends a lot on the positions and action of course, but AsJs is likely value. It doesn’t really need much protection, so there’s good reasons to take a small size that will get called by worse. On the other hand, we’re not afraid of building a large pot against Qx or Jx hands, but also not unhappy to just take the pot down now, so over-bet is ok too. Each line has it advantages and disadvantages - if you and your opponent play both perfectly it rarely makes any difference.
River bet sizing is a completely different story of course. There’s almost always a best size in that case, especially in the real world.
Are you talking tourney or ring game? I take a different approach to pre-flop raise sizing depending on the game. When average stacks get down to the 20-30 BB range in an MTT I see min raising as achieving the same benefit (unless there’s already an abundance of limpers) as a bigger raise but enables me to play a bigger effective stack.
I think @Younguru meant using 2x as a default, and/or when there are already multiple limpers. Solver will open to 2x from early position at 50BB deep. 2-2.2x is pretty typical once you get short.
Expanding on my post above, the main reason there’s no EV difference between bet sizes for the solver on the flop (within reason), is that it will perfectly compensate on later streets. It’s much harder to do that as a human. Half pot and full pot are usually not great sizes because they are often kind of in between sizes that are really difficult to play correctly.
yup
1/2 pot often gives opponents too good odds to continue
full pot often forces too many hands to fold
Yup, that, and also the ranges you get to play for those sizes is hard to figure out. If you go 1/4-1/3, you can usually range bet without losing too much EV on almost all flops, and it’s relatively easy to learn what hands to chose if your playing over-bet or check on a particular board. 3/4 is not as straight forward, but still easier than half or full pot on boards where range betting or over-betting is not appropriate.
The correct ranges for 1/2 and full pot are usually much less intuitive.
