Right, on the turn, shove is fine, but what about betting small? No hand that calls the all-in is going to fold, some of them might even bluff raise. You can still always jam the river no matter what, so there isn’t any realistic way that a small bet wins less than all-in on the turn.
Neither of those hands should even be calling a small turn bet though, that’s crazy. They just must not have understood that the kicker counts, and thought they were always chopping.
I hope everyoe will now realize that given the circumstances someone ALWAYS has an Ace. You were fortunate the two others hadn’t learned this.
I’ve never been very good with the ladies. That’s why I play poker.
Wow! That blows my mind how the Villains screwed themselves royally.
Like I said, stacks and pot odds and multiway. Stacks were crazy deep so your jam gave them HORRIBLE pot odds. Also, if the call the have to win showdown against TWO Villains.
Heads-up I can see T calling you but not 3-way. Heads-up, remember, not knowing that a 9 is coming on the river, there is a 8-25ish% chance that the river chops everything and your hands are useless. Then the bet sizing screams bluff, especially since the flop was checked and you are jamming the BT on a checked turn too. So I can understand his rationale (I don’t agree with it due to the 3-way and the horrible pot odds) thinking, “that huge bet is air and I’m calling his bluff-ass.” Personally I am not calling those pot odds with T-high. I probably wouldn’t even call with J. Better pot odds and heads-up I definitely consider J. But with this atrocious pot odds I might even fold K here (and cry).
As for Mr 8-high, was he on crack? Even if he KNOWS that you’re bluffing, he has to have SOMETHING to catch you with. I think this may very well be the case where someone just doesn’t understand kickers and thought that this was chopping no matter what.
I had that happen once on another site years ago. A flush came on the board. I still have the screenshot. I don’t have the streets saved but several players were all-in (I was not one of them).
The board was 7 9 2 6 K - all dia
Hero won with Qdi 5ht
Villain 1 Aht Jsp
Villain 2 J5cl
Villain 3 A7cl
Villain 4 3sp3ht
Over the next few hands a debate developed over whether the pot was awarded correctly. Villain 2 became upset that he didn’t chop. A couple of us told him that Hero had the only diamond and his diamond hit the board (wasn’t outkicked by the lowest diamond) so his flush beat everybody else’s flush.
“Flush on the board is a split pot!” Villain 2 insisted.
“No, he outkicked you,” I repeated.
“Flush on the board splits. That’s the rule.”
“Only if no one has a diamond on the board.”
Then Villain 2 says this absolute gem. Brace yourself.
“I deal.”
So I said, "Apparently not very well. ; ) "
Back to the quads.
The suggestion of the value bet is good, but then maybe value bet says, “I got it,” and they fold and you don’t get paid.
I think it’s just one of those situations where no matter what you do you’re at the whim of the Villain’s cards and thoughts as to whether you get paid or not and whether you slow play, value or jam the result will probably be the same.
Fold, the rake will make us both losers:)
The rake only makes everyone a loser if the pot is split between all the people who have bet.
But, even then, since everyone paid the BB amount, losing the rake will still be less than losing the BB.
So how does blanket folding make any sense?
Not worth putting money or chips in a pot like that, trust me, no value 2 it, very simple, me old and wise:)…Ok, wife just said i am old but not very wise lol:).
Why call all in with A? I called a quad board 6 months ago (cash game) with A and instantly knew oops, i awwww messed up—we of course both had A and lost some of my stack to rake…Now a tournament of course call with A:)
I probably play 99% tournaments which is my POV in responses. In cash games and tourneys a call would depend on pot odds and the number of players involved. Most likely (off the top of my head) I would think a call would still cover the rake since it wouldn’t always be an evenly chopped pot.
Btw, there’s a rake in tourneys.
I’m pretty sure @bill8888 is joking about the rake. Still, it is really annoying when you make a decent bet and get raised, because then someone is just making you pay more rake than necessary.
The rake in tournaments is taken on registration (and if the buy-ins don’t meet the guarantee, there’s effectively negative rake). There’s never any rake on a single hand. In a ring game, you can end up with less chips than you started with in a chopped pot. That can’t happen in a tournament.
True, but …
My thinking in my reply is when 3 or more call in a cash game and you and another have an Ace. You’ll be chopping the pot from the others without an Ace. Usually, the rake is limited to between 5 - 10% of the total pot and I’m just guessing their losses would cover any rake.
Oh yeah, you always have to call, because there’s a cap on the rake. Someone would have to be betting something like 400% pot and still not hitting the rake cap, and I don’t think that’s possible. If the rake is that high, you have bigger problem than whether or not you should be calling for a chop with the nuts.
Yeah, I forgot about this. When the rake is limited to 5% or 10% it’s kind of easily calculated. But it takes extra effort when it’s something like 7% because then I’d have to take my shoes off and few (unless they have a foot fetish) would want to see me do that at the table.
Only on the buy-in, not the hand itself, so the rake does not affect the pot/stacks.
And in fact the guaranteed tourneys cover the rake if the field is small enough.
I’m fairly new to a lot of this… I know how to play the game. Still learning strategy and looking up a lot of terms. Can someone explain this rake table for me please? Specifically the “BB Cap” column. Thanks.
I NEVER played a tournament with a rake:)
Yep, i am joking BUT frustrating playing with awwww Donks in ring games who will raise or go in all with quads on the board, i see it in cash games and here…
Actually, cash micro games no cap, 5.5% rake—i awwww play them late at night when bored and no other games and these players (many) have no clue about rakes etc. and also LOVE to play bingo–
When i called 6 months ago with quad board the other play went all in, and we both had A—i play 90% ring games and different i know.
