You obviously never sank a 35’ putt to win a $1 skin from guys who wouldn’t even bend down to pick up a $1 bill if they dropped one Some of these guys go bat-crap nuts over it.
Whether a random puff of wind knocks your shot a hair out of the 10-ring or someone nails a half-court shot with no time left to win the game, all events that seem more dependent upon luck than skill can drive people bonky. Even when people know the event is totally random, they can go nuts when it doesn’t work out in their favor (ever peek over at the blackjack tables at the Bellagio when you were there?).
The hardest thing to get used to in life is that is just isn’t “fair”. In poker, it becomes especially acute when seemingly silly play beats technically perfect play in a single event. Its difficult for people to accept that just because a stupid play worked once doesn’t mean the universe is rewarding all stupid play for all time. People are taught that if they work hard and follow the rules, they will succeed. This is generally true but only over the long run. In the short run, people who are total incompetents will win the lottery or otherwise get lucky. Poor poker players will win hands and even games. It is difficult to wrap your head around the fact that even perfect play does not guarantee a win every time.
I have admired Daniel Negranu for a very long time. Its not his skill that impresses me most though. Its the fact that he looks likes he’s having more fun when he’s losing than most people do when they are winning. I will never achieve anything close to his level of skill in poker but I would love to achieve some of his perspective.
I think part of it is that we get to pick who we play most games with. I’ve had people flip over chess boards when I took their queen, but I just don’t play with them any more. Not only do we not get to pick who we play with, we play against a lot more people… from all walks of life. There’s bound to be a few broken cookies in such a big cookie jar.
I’ve tried the SNGs as well most of the other games. I still am only allowing 2 months as I read last year about private rooms sometime this year but I’m tired of waiting for the solutions to appear. I play online as I can do it from the comfort of my home but it’s not worth the hassle with the bullies and bingo players. I would rather have to go out to one of the many casinos in the area as I don’t have to deal with all the idiots online.
I do alright both online and at the casino but I find the casino doesn’t have the number of fools playing as there are online. I can’t afford to buy chips to get into the higher stakes games online either. I supplement my income through my play at the casinos and that is the only way I survive.
Unfortunately, I enjoy being able to play online for free but have found that it just isn’t worth the hassle anymore. As I said I’ve won more than my share of tourneys as I’m a decent player and can usually wait out the bullies and bingo players but again I find it just too much of a hassle. I know I’m not alone in this and I’ve chatted with quite a few people feeling the same way so don’t be surprised if you lose more players in the next few month for the same reason. We’re all sick of waiting for solutions.
As I said bullies and bingo players are a fact of life and we even see them once in a while at the casinos but they don’t last long there as I said if they play like do online then there is a good possibility of them not making it across the parking lot. In the casinos there is more human reaction to the play and that is why bullies and bingo players don’t last long there.
I’ve even tried the fixed limit games but the bullies have figured out how to keep raising to the max each turn so again it’s not a complete solution to the problem. Good luck getting this problem sorted out but I just can’t wait any longer. I will try a few games once a week to see if I notice any changes but otherwise I will be gone.
Thanks for your time and effort but I’m just unwilling to wait any longer.
You are definitely not alone Bob.
The game is just not as enjoyable when the bingo players and the bullies are playing.
The worst offenders are the very small bankrolls(nothing to lose) and the very large bankrolls playing in small to medium buy-ins.
I don’t know if it can ever be fixed but a ranking system based soley on skill at poker would help imo.
You would never see a real casino trying to dictate how a player spends their money (other than pre-set table limits). Replay should be no different. If a player wins (or purchases) his or her chips then their style of play should not be limited by the house. If other players don’t like the style of play at a table they are always free to sit out, change tables (unless it’s a tourney), be patient, or whine.
I love to see bad players at my tables. I have no complaints, and I don’t want to leave while they still have chips left.
As you go up in rank, playing on Replay becomes a game of spot the fish. Rank is a good starting point, but you can also notice bingo players and maniacs immediately, and they are prime targets. I can sit there for 80 hands and fold because I know that when I get a hand, I will get all of their chips. When choosing a ring game, if you sit down and everybody at your table is ranked several hundred or thousand places better than you, they are aware of that fact, and you have a target on your back. You can potentially take advantage of it by adjusting to how they are likely to play against you (such as putting you under pressure with big bets), but most of the time it is a good idea to use good bankroll management and play at lower stakes until you can afford to move up. The chips funnel quickly to the top.
For the price of a used smartphone you can buy the chips to put you in the top .2% of the rankings.
Current ranking means next to nothing.
The only good way to evaluate players is to watch them play over a period of time.
I respectfully disagree. From my 170,000 hands on Replay, I can clearly differentiate the skill of players by rank. Of course, ranking can be wrong about one particular player, but it is extremely predictive of skill in general. Also, I agree that ranks from 900,000 down to 20,000 are completely meaningless, and ranks from 20,000 down to 5,000 are almost completely meaningless, but better ranked players than that can usually be differentiated by rank to a large degree.
I am not sure how many people are paying $100 for 3.75m chips, but I cannot imagine there are many (although I have seen the occasional obvious buyer lose hundreds of dollars worth of chips in minutes in high stakes ring). To get into the top 300, somebody would have to pay $1000. And if they tried to play high stakes with those chips, they would lose them almost immediately, so it is hard to get and sustain high ranks.
Joe,
I don’t believe our thinking is that far apart.
I said, ‘ranking means next to nothing’.
You said, ‘895,000 of the 900,000 ranking are completely meaningless or almost completely meaningless’.
That’s pretty close to saying the same thing, which is that less than 1% of rankings are useful as a means of judging a player’s skill.
I don’t play much on the high stakes tables so I’ll defer to your judgement on those ranked better than 5,000.
Good question… The way I try to reform them is by playing good. Don’t call there b/s raises pre-flop or when u know there betting too aggressive w/ less than nothing… Too many people chase there style hoping to beat them w/ weak hand. I just try and play tight and wait for the opportunity to capitalize on there “bully” style… Most of the time I can double up on them with the nuts and end up lasting longer than them… Not always but more than not… I guess I’m saying poor play shouldn’t invite poor play on our part/ (“our” meaning players who respect the game) It’s an emotional and competitive game, we have to resist our emotional and competitive want/need to “show them they suck”…
What you have to realize is that this is not real poker. This is a hybrid version of poker. It is entertaining and does in many ways resemble the game of poker. Believe it or not there are many bullies and bingo players who play real poker with real chips. It is actually a part of the game. Of course you’re going to see it a lot more on sites like these because for one you’re probably playing a lot more here than you do at a live table. And two, there’s really nothing to lose. What I get out of this site is working on my patience and learning to navigate my way through the various types of players that I encounter during a tournament. Bullies and bingo players very seldom win tournaments or even go very deep. You simply need to weather the storm.
Although I agree with the main letter, I have to say that when this type of ‘strategy’ is employed it should be up to the more serious players to find ways to circumnavigate it and to take advantage of it. Whether we like it or not, I don’t think that anyone can deny that it is still poker. In all sports there are many ways to win. Be it with exciting attacking play, or a more subdued defensive tactic.
We are playing the game for the same reason people play in tournaments…to beat the other guy…to show our skill… to bolster our egos. Only significant difference between playing here and in a casino is the scoring. The organizers of the site know this, that is why they incorporated ranking systems and achievement awards…and why they can actually sell chips for money.
I could not agree more. As a royal player, I am so tired of the people who really do not know the game coming in and pressing all in pre flop every hand and making a good game impossible. Especially at this game where the beauty of it is any hand can win any time, (think AA vs. 10 J and the JJJ flop for example). These people apparently have no clue how to play a “good” hand, and just sit around waiting to see AA or AK and “ALL IN!” Which at royal even AA only wins probably half the time, and generally is nothing special until another ace pops up to go with it. So rather than challenge themselves mentally trying to decide how to best play their hand to maximum benefit, all they can figure to do is hit the ALL IN button. These bingo bluffers and chip bullies ruin more games and almost always lose their chips as fast as they got them. For this reason games like Royal should offer tables with Mixed Limits and Pot Limits. Most good royal players almost never bet more than the pot anyways and it is not that hard to do well this way. I think tables with limits would keep the obnoxious behavior away, as it appears to do in the games that offer it.
What do you think?? And, how do we get them to offer games like royal with limits?
Some of these guys go bat-crap nuts over it.